nvdaily.com link to home page

Traffic | Weather | Mobile Edition
Archives | Subscribe

Opinion arrow Letters to the Editor

| 0 | 85 Comments

Letter to the Editor: GOP health plans good intentioned

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan's plans for Social Security and Medicare are meant to save both plans.  Ryan's mother is a retiree in Florida.  He would do nothing to hurt her.  He said we made promises on which the elderly planned their retirements.

He said we must keep those promises.  No one over 55 will be affected. The plan guarantees Social Security and Medicare as is. Those under 55 in 2022 will be given an option to join Medicare or take a guaranteed coverage plan allowing them to choose their own coverage.

It functions like the current federal employee plans.

On the contrary, President Obama took over seven hundred billion out of the Medicare trust fund, which seniors pay into every month. President Obama uses this money to pay for those without insurance.  Not only do seniors pay for Medicare, but also for supplemental insurance to cover all our medical expenses.  The president promised that medical costs would not go up and then he raised the cost of Medicare.

The Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius, will decide what care we should get and when. Her regulation on paying for contraceptives changed the definition of what is a church. Now a church can only serve its own members and hire its own to members to be exempt from paying for the morally objectionable chemicals and medicines that kill babies and do serious damage to, and even kill, their mothers. How much more will this power be used to take away our freedoms in the future?

President Obama said he lowered middle class taxes by halving the payroll tax.  That's the money people contribute to their Social Security insurance.  They will not have had a large enough contribution to qualify when they are ready to retire.  Is it any wonder the Social Security Administration is going broke?
Pray for our nation.  Please God, we elect honest men who love America and want it to be one nation under God again.

Illeen Reninger, Front Royal


"On the contrary, President Obama took over seven hundred billion out of the Medicare trust fund, which seniors pay into every month. President Obama uses this money to pay for those without insurance. Not only do seniors pay for Medicare, but also for supplemental insurance to cover all our medical expenses. The president promised that medical costs would not go up and then he raised the cost of Medicare".

THIS IS THE BIG LIE THAT CONTINUES TO BE REPEATED BY ROMNEY/RYAN and keeps running over and over and over on TV. This same lie gets repeated by Fox News, Limbaugh and other right-wingers even though it has been debunked by the Congressional Budget Office and other non-partisan sources.

Another attempt at destroying what's left of our social security system and underminding our elderly's health coverage is filling the airwaves. The idea is to PRIVATIZE Medicare and Social Security: some have called this plan, "Path to Destitution" for the elderly.

The Affordable Care Act did not reduce and will not reduce any benefits under Medicare. The $716 Billion (referred to) is estimated savings under the Act from limiting administrative cost to health care providers and pharmaceutical manufacturers.

Please read up and get the facts. Stop listening to this hogwash. The Repulbican Party fought Social Security and Medicare from day one and have continued to do all they can to undermine both for half a century. Repeat a lie long enough and it takes on a life of its own. BEWARE of the hidden agenda.

You are right. We need to elect honest people to serve throughout the whole goverment system, so this country can be saved. Very good artical Illeen and I am with you. This big mess is in God's hands now.

I guess for someone who would be around 90 years old in 2023, this wouldn't make much difference; but it certainly will have a huge impact for the younger generation.


Ryan’s plan would fundamentally change the nature of Medicare, extend the eligibility age from 65 to 67, and eliminate the “doughnut hole” relief to the Medicare drug benefit in the 2010 Affordable Care Act (ACA). The first two changes would not start until 2023, for people who are currently under age 55.

Under the Ryan plan, the government would no longer provide coverage directly under Medicare but rather would help seniors buy health insurance in the private market. Ryan describes his plan as “premium support” as opposed to a voucher system. Either approach turns Medicare into a plan that subsidizes private insurance plans. The theory is that competition among the private plans for the seniors’ dollars will help contain costs. If not, Medicare spending will be limited to the growth of GDP plus 0.5 percent. This arrangement raises the prospect that the cost of private plans would far exceed the money provided, shifting a large burden to seniors.

When the Ryan plan takes effect in 2023, the age of eligibility would begin to increase from 65 to 67. Such an increase would bring Medicare eligibility in line with Social Security’s full retirement age. It could also encourage people to delay retirement so they do not spend periods without health insurance. But basically, this is a cost-shifting proposal. Medicare costs would go down, but individuals and (the dwindling numbers of) employers that offer health insurance would have to pay more. States’ spending on Medicaid would also be higher.

Finally, because Ryan proposes repealing the ACA, his plan eliminates the relief for the gap in coverage — the “doughnut hole” — under Medicare Part D. Essentially, after a Medicare beneficiary surpasses the prescription drug coverage limit, the beneficiary is responsible for the entire cost of prescription drugs until the expense reaches the catastrophic threshold. Under the ACA, people who fall within the doughnut hole began in 2010 to receive a rebate and by 2020 the doughnut hole will be completely phased out. Repealing the health care legislation would eliminate this relief and shift more of the costs to the individual.

Earlier versions of Ryan’s plan were sharply criticized because they did not retain a traditional Medicare option. Under his revamped approach, seniors will be able to sign up for traditional Medicare. However, to the extent that sicker people seek to remain in the traditional program, it could become very expensive. To the extent that the traditional Medicare plan costs more than the competing private plans, seniors would have to pay the difference. Moreover, critics suggest that doctors would likely leave the traditional Medicare plans if options were available, since they already find today’s Medicare payments inadequate.

Ryan’s Medicare proposals will contain budget costs, and I admire him for putting it on the table. But personally, I find the proposals deeply flawed. Without real “bending of the health care cost curve,” premium support simply shifts the costs from the government to the individual. Cost control is possible only once everyone is in the system. As in Massachusetts, the first step is universal coverage and the second step — currently underway in Massachusetts — is reigning in costs. The ACA, which is modeled on the Massachusetts legislation, is the foundation for real cost savings. Ryan’s proposals will simply raise the average senior’s health care cost in 2023 by more than $6,000 compared with baseline amounts, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates.



So, this is the plan that you advocate for your children and grandchildren, Mrs. Reninger?

Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan "could raise future retirees’ costs more than $6,000."
Barack Obama on Friday, August 17th, 2012 in a campaign commercial

The Obama ad would have been more accurate if it had specified that it was referring to a previous Ryan plan for Medicare rather than the current one. We simply don’t have enough details to know how much extra money seniors might have to pay under the current Ryan plan. Still, the Obama campaign gave itself some wiggle room by saying that the plan "could" raise out-of-pocket costs by more than $6,000. On balance, we rate the statement Mostly True.


Here’s a quick rundown of the latest Ryan plan:

For seniors who are now in Medicare, nothing changes. They can stay with the traditional program as it is.

Beginning in 2023, 65-year-olds would have their choice of insurance plans — private and traditional — on a new Medicare exchange. A premium-support payment, like a subsidy, would be sent to the plan of their choice.
If the chosen plan costs more than the premium-support, the senior would pay the difference.
The Medicare eligibility age would be slowly raised to 67 by 2034.
All plans on the Medicare exchange would offer a base level of benefits, and they would be regulated by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services.
The premium-support payments would be tied to the second-cheapest plan, which can’t grow more than gross domestic product plus 0.5 percentage points. If the cost does grow faster, Congress would be required to step in and take some action to keep costs down. (YES, RIGHT; TRUST THAT! We see how well Congress works!)
CBO didn’t conduct an analysis that shows what seniors might have to spend out of pocket under the latest plan. But it said that “beneficiaries might face higher costs,” adding that there was uncertainty in making such predictions. CBO said that both the Ryan plan and current law could lead to the same consequences — “reduced access to health care; diminished quality of care; increased efficiency of health care delivery; less investment in new, high-cost technologies; or some combination of those outcomes. In addition, beneficiaries might face higher costs, which could in turn reinforce some of the other effects.” And some of the effects would be greater under the Ryan plan because government spending is lower. But there was no estimate of seniors paying $6,000 more, or any other amount, under the latest GOP plan.


Of course, Paul Ryan's mother will not be hurt with her son revamping medicare...PAUL RYAN’S MOTHER IS 78-YEAR-OLD repeat PAUL RYAN’S MOTHER IS 78-YEAR-OLD. (I have to admit she looks very good for her age.)

Romney said, "Under the president's plan, he cuts Medicare by $716 billion, takes that money out of the Medicare trust fund and uses it to pay for Obamacare." This wording isn't as troublesome as other statements we've seen on this topic, including from Romney himself.

Still, Romney's most-recent attempt at this claim needs significantly more explanation.

In this instance, Romney’s claim gives the impression that the law takes money that was already allocated to Medicare and funds the new health care law with it.

In fact, the law uses a number of measures to try to reduce the rapid growth of future Medicare spending. Those savings are then used to offset costs created by the law -- especially coverage for the uninsured -- so that the overall law doesn't add to the deficit. We rate his statement Half True.


Pray for our nation. Please God, we need honest men who stop lying to the America people and become a nation of one again which our current president has attempted to do with little or no support from the opposition!

2004 interviewer stated that "I know Bush screwed up our country but I'm going to vote for him because he should have to fix it."

Ah! Love that idiot's mentality!

What is Obamas plan?

JJS, I am really embarrassed for you. How can anyone in America be unaware of what has been the most discussed topic in this country since 2009?

Sweetie, I could post a response to your question; but I'm certain that, given your question, you would not bother to read it anyway.

Have a great day.

Illeen Reninger, please let me point out a couple of things you may want to consider before you vote. With all the uproar about "Obamacare" and how Republicans promise that if they are elected, they promise to repeal it, that will actually be a detriment to seniors!

With Obamacare, all of seniors' wellness check ups would be free. With Obamacare, the Medicare prescription donut hole will be gone! Obamacare saves seniors hundreds if not thousands of dollars of out of pocket expenses. Repealing this Affordable Care Act would be a BIG mistake. You don't have to believe me...simply google it.

I pray to God Almighty that people actually do some research and learn the truth instead of getting their "facts" from crazy like a Fox News or other people who simply parrot untruths they are told by other misguided and misinformed individuals.

You speak of "taking away our freedoms"...if the Republicans win the election and have their way, women will be set back more than 100 yrs by trying to dictate a woman's healthcare. Men need to stay out of women's healthcare decisions...period! No man will tell us what birth control to use, what we do with our bodies, how many children to have or have not....EVER! I am just waiting for the Republican party as we know now it to try and bring clitoraldectomy into the fold. Their visions of women's healthcare issues are just that skewed and dangerous and they need to be voted down....way down!!

In 1998, Ann Romney was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis; and I state with all confidence that everyone wishes her the best outcome possible.

I found it a little odd, however, that in their charitable contributions more was given to the George W. Bush Library ($100,000) than to Center For Treatment of Pediatric MS ($75,000).

1. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: $4,781,000
2. Brigham Young University: $525,000
3. The United Way: $177,000
4. Right to Play : $111,500

Right to Play is an international humanitarian organization that uses sport and play programs to improve health, develop life skills, and foster peace for children and communities in some of the most disadvantaged areas of the world. Right To Play builds local capacity by training community leaders as Coaches to deliver its programs in 20 countries affected by war, poverty, and disease in Africa, Asia, the Middle East and South America. Founded in 2000, Right To Play is headquartered in Toronto, Canada and has national offices in Canada, Norway, the Netherlands, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States. The national offices raise funds, build awareness for Right To Play programs and advocate for Sport for Development. The organization's vision is to engage leaders on all sides of sport, business and media to ensure every child’s right to play.

5. The George W. Bush Library: $100,000
6. Operation Kids : $85,000

Operation Kids is a public nonprofit organization founded in 1999 in Salt Lake City, Utah. Operation Kids provides customized philanthropic services at no cost to donors seeking to give money to children's organizations.
Because all of Operation Kids’ fund-raising and administrative expenses are fully met through unrestricted donations and proceeds from a managed investment fund, 100% of every donor dollar designated for OK-approved charities and programs goes to support those programs. John Walsh was the 2008 recipient for Operation Kids Lifetime Achievement award; Ann Romney was the 2006 Operation Kids Lifetime Achievement award recipient; Dr. Bill and Kathy Magee were both 2005 recipients for Operation Kids Lifetime Achievement awards; and Senator Orrin Hatch accepted the first Operation Kids Lifetime Achievement Awards.

7. Center For Treatment of Pediatric MS: $75,000
8. Harvard Business School: $70,000
9. City Year : $65,000
10. Deseret International : $50,000

Academy of LDS Dentists. Desert International either has not responded to written BBB requests for information or has declined to be evaluated in relation to BBB Standards for Charity Accountability.

Excellent factual reply posts by Diana, Jane Mackie and Tstar!!

Near universal condemnation of the Tea Party and its shills (hello 'teatime') and the avoidance of any meaningful debate on the issues is only the latest example of evangelical fundamentalists obstinate stubbornness when faced with reality contradicting their core beliefs. Some still believe the Earth is flat and at the center of the known universe where their god wants it to be. Don't get me started on women who possess supernatural powers that prevent sperm fertilizing eggs or the bearded magical man that lives in the sky and grants wishes if you beg in just the right way. Too bad the usual response to devout praying is toast displaying a face if viewed with squinting eyes.

Tea Party zealots understand their worldview is too radical for mainstream America, reverting to the telling of lies and falsehoods to mask their radicalism -- the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing. The ultimate goal of the Tea Party is changing America from a democracy to a theocracy.

This fanatical religious zealotry is the underlying reason the GOP leadership infrastructure allows itself to be bullied by the Tea Party crazies. It is always much easier to capitulate today and stab them in the back later, a favorite tactic employed by Mitt Romney. They never see it coming. Just ask the candidates who faced Romney during the primaries.

Perhaps 'JJS' and 'teatime' will self-deport themselves back to where ever he/she came from? There must be plenty of lonesome rocks available to crawl under.

There is so much folly in her letter. Explain to me MS Reninger how the GOP Medicare and Social Security plan would be like that for Federal Employees. You do know that Federal Employees are already covered by Medicare don't you? And these uninformed people vote!!

Oops, forgot City Year.....

City Year is an education-focused nonprofit organization that partners with high need public schools to provide full-time targeted student interventions. In communities across the United States and through two international affiliates, City Year USES TEAMS OF 17 to 24 YEAR OLD AmeriCorps* MEMBER SUPPORT STUDENTS by focusing on attendance, behavior, and course performance. The organization emphasizes the values of leadership, diversity and community service.
AmeriCorps is a U.S. federal government program that was created under President Bill Clinton by the National and Community Service Trust Act of 1993 and later expanded by 50 percent under President George W. Bush. The work done by these groups ranges from public education to environmental clean-up.

Very admirable, giving all this financial support to these community projects in the U.S. and internationally.

As Andy Griffin used to say "Gollyeeeeee," I know of someone who not only has donated money to the community BUT actually ventured out into the LOCAL communities within his home state to help his community, a community organizer himself. Anyone care to guess his name? (Give ya a hint; initials are BHO.)

They had to pass it so we (real American citizens) could find out what is in it. That tells me all I need to know about the Un-Affordable Healthcare Act. What a sham.

Coffee cheers to you Jane for keeping up with the madness and the continued patience to put up with the crayon eaters. I don't have it today.

I had to go hunting as certain people reminded me of a youtube video once sent to me.


Granted some signs are obviously fake, but the song matches very well.

There is a good reason for the saying "reality has a liberal bias". Continued proof of said hypothesis is found here almost daily.

That is the problem with Obama and his worker bees like you Jane. You all are more worried about what the world thinks about us than what the true Americans like us think. These commie thing liberals are slowly taking over the country and you people have no idea that we are the ones trying to save your sorry butts.

Ha! Ha! Katybug.

Thanks Jane, that video was really good and so refreshing to hear someone say it like it is, as the Irish president did. I like the way he called out the "over-the-top teaparty rhetoric" for what it is.


When Hillary Rosen said, “His wife (Ann Romney) has actually never worked a day in her life.” (Most people with any intellect realized the conversation referred to working women.) Obama took the higher ground and quickly and openly disavowed her comments.

Ann Romney didn't accept the apology from Rosen with any grace whatsoever; she milked it for all the political mileage she could.


Mr. Nugent, the self-described “Motor City Madman” and a longtime N.R.A. board member who has endorsed Mr. Romney, appeared Saturday at the group’s annual convention in St. Louis. In a raucous speech, Mr. Nugent told audience members that “if Barack Obama becomes the president in November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year.” He added that if they could not “clean house in this vile, evil, America-hating administration, I don’t even know what you’re made out of.”

Did Romney say anything about this?

The Romney campaign responded on Tuesday without mentioning Mr. Nugent by name. “Divisive language is offensive no matter what side of the political aisle it comes from,” said a spokeswoman, Andrea Saul.

So that is the honorable men you want encircling your world, huh, Ms Reninger?

song98, yes, American's global standing has much improved in the past three and a half years but those lacking a proper education just cannot comprehend the power in that; i.e., respect.

Quoting a VERY smart women:

The National Review article touting reasons why women should prefer Mitt Romney fills me with a distaste bordering on acute nausea. I guess I must be "evolving" in the opposite direction, because there is NOTHING about the man that appeals to me on ANY level and I don't care if he has all the money in the world. I simply don't regard the accumulation of wealth (in his case, ill-gotten gains) as a hallmark of "success" but rather as an ultra-selfish soullessness that says its okay to step on other people and stomp them into the ground to achieve your own dubious ends. If, by some fluke, he should be elected, I will seriously wonder if all my sisters in this country have lost their flippin' minds! If we are that stupid and uncaring of our own welfare, we might just as well give back the right to vote!

Thanks Jane, that video was really good and so refreshing to hear someone say it like it is, as the Irish president did. I like the way he called out the "over-the-top tea party rhetoric" for what it is.

I have no problem with people on the other side of the political spectrum having a difference of opinion from mine and in fact have had some robust debates with relatives who have remained Republicans (at least so far----but the more extreme right the party becomes, the more I see them not wanting to be identified with the "R's"). But these extreme, right-wing types who identify as tea party members I find, as an American, to be down-right embarrassing in their loud, foolish, over-the-top rhetoric that is not representative of most Americans who are closer to moderate positions for the most part.


Sorry Jane for the "repeat"---never got to finish my original comment when it "disappeared"!
Did not realize it had been "submitted".

Poor Ms. Reninger! I actually felt sorry for her when I read her letter and saw that she is placing her faith in Romney/Ryan/Republicans to protect her medicare and social security. (I mean, she did say that "-----Ryan's mother is a retiree in Florida. He would do nothing to hurt her".) Oh Ms. Reninger, Ms. Reninger! Do NOT open your front door because you will loose your nest-egg when the lineup of people wanting to sell you some bridge in Brooklyn, or some ocean-front property in Arizona, will arrive and you will buy. Of course, I assume poor Ms. Reninger is some sweet little, very innocent and naive gray-haired lady but "she" may very well be some 60 year old cigar-smoking, bald, greasy tea party person (man or woman) who is trying to sound like an innocent little old lady to appeal to the sweet little old men and women out there! Who is to say?

I would tell "Ms. Reninger" and others in this country that if they want to be sure that medicare and social security will be there for them and future generations, they had better hope and pray the Democrats have control of it. It is the Republicans who are always saying "shrink the government! The government is too big!" They are the ones who claim the Democrats "want a nanny state" because, as they claim, the Democrats are "for social programs". The Republicans are the ones who say "give too much with social programs only makes people more dependent". Is this the party---the Republicans----that you think "Ms. Reninger", is the party to trust with these programs? If your answer is "yes" I repeat, keep your front door tightly locked!

"Ms. Reninger" in her letter only states right-wing Republican distortions, lies, scare tactics and talking points. It is really easy, "Ms. Reninger", with only a few clicks of the mouse, you can go to a number of non-partisan fact-checking sites to find out what the truth is. Of course, that means you have to be interested in learning what the truth is and not just sit there in front of Fox (so-called) "news" or listen to the right-wing nuts on radio who will tell you what they want you to believe. And what the right-wing Republicans want is not what will be in the best interest of the middle class and the poor of this country.

According to Socrates, the measure of an education is that you acquire some idea of the extent of your ignorance. And it seems at least thinkable that today's history students don't quite know what subject they are not being taught. Discussing ignorance brings the conversation to the Tea Party.

When it comes to a battle of wits the Tea Party is virtually unarmed. What they lack in intelligence they compensate with ignorant loudness, incomplete and unintelligible comments, threats of godly reprisals for obstructing their crusade to overturn democracy and the implicit death threats that accompany the brandishing of guns.

The Economist Magazine reports since 9/11 more Americans have been murdered by domestic far right wing crazies than by the Taliban/Al Queda, giving us some true sense of what endangers us on a daily basis. The danger is most assuredly not bombs hidden in airline travelers shoes as much as the nearly free availability of assault rifles holding magazines filled with 100 rounds of ammunition wielded by a crazy right wing fool with a score to settle.

The Republican leadership has now become full accomplices to the evils perpetrated by these Tea Party Tin Foil Hats every time the GOP seeks to soothe the unslakable appetites of the crime family that we know as the Tea Party.

Precisely because they deal in 'eternal verities,' the Tea Party purist must operate independently of history and politics. There is, for them, no important distinction between sufficient and necessary conditions; no need to study the evolution of society or production. Their often religious and millennial attitude to the future derives in part from a religious attitude toward the past; toward some primordial and timeless hellhole of ignorance, innocence, and simplicity such as Eden is reported to have been.

Where is hatred and tribalism and ignorance most commonly incubated, and from which platform is it most commonly yelled? If you answered 'the churches' and 'the pulpits,' you got both answers right. Bigotry of all sorts is freely available, and openly inculcated into children, by any otherwise unemployable dirtbag who can perform the easy feat of putting Reverend in front of his name.

Pulled from FB...Limbaugh: Obama Made Up Tropical Storm To Disrupt GOP Convention, Mocks Hurricane Katrina


Now the link may be a liberal site, but it does have audio from his show.

I cant figure out which is worse that people that listen to this crap are allowed to vote or that we live side by side said people.

I've been so inspired by TeaTime and his brilliant Tea Party's intellect that I've written a theme song for them.

To the tune of Auld Lang Syne:

We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here.

We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here.

We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here.

(4th verse same as the first, only LOUDER!) Repeat another hundred times. Follow the balancing ball. . .

Catchy tune, Diane.


It is baffling to me that some people are so proud of their ignorance. That is my own personal quote. Here is another:

"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." Lord John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton.

Well there's nothing new under the sun, I guess.

Trying to make a light joke by using a little tune my cousins and I made up when we were kids. We thought we were annoyingly original in those days.

A while ago I got online and typed it in and much to my surprise there it was!

Amazing! :o)

Worth thinking about for Virginians....Romney today announced his goals for energy independence by 2020. In part by increasing drilling off Virginia coasts.

You can easily find online that the US currently produces MORE oil than it consumes. We ARE at an all time high in oil production. So, is the potential ecological damage to our coastline worth oil companies having more to sell to China? Certain parts of our state are dependent upon the beach revenue brought in. So is it worth the risk? Would Virginians benefit more from the ocean front revenue or the possible trickle down from US oil companies selling to other countries?

Mind you, these are BILLIONS of dollars in profit companies already getting our tax dollars for no reason and gas is still "high dollar".

Katybug, You accurately stated that "We ARE at an all time high in oil production." But the good citizens don't care to verify, they just soak up the sound bites.

Yet, more of Romney's testing Americans stupidity....

Romney falsely accuses Obama of gutting welfare reform


Romney: "Under Obama’s plan (for welfare), you wouldn’t have to work and wouldn’t have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check."

The ad’s claim is not accurate, and it inflames old resentments about able-bodied adults sitting around collecting public assistance. Liar, Liar Pants on Fire!

site to my last post:


If you notice in the above 'youtube', he can't even tell the lie without swallowing.

WOW! Watching Brian Williams... Rock Center...Topic Mormon in America

Several things in Brian Williams' segment of Mormon in America I found interesting, for example.

In the church's Handbook of Instructions, leaders are instructed to tell members they "should wear the garment both day and night",[7], and that they should not alter it. In the temple recommend interview,[30][31] members are asked if they wear the garment "night and day" according to the covenants made in the temple,[32] although the temple ordinance only states that "you must wear [the garment] throughout your life."[33][34] Members are told that they should not partially or completely remove any portion of the garment to participate in activities that can "reasonably be done with the garment worn properly beneath the clothing".[7] When necessary, the garment may be temporarily removed, but members are told that after the activity "they should put it back on as soon as possible."[7] Swimming is given as an example of an activity that would justify removal of the garment.[7]
Garment wearers are also instructed that they should not adjust the garment or wear it in a way that would accommodate the wearing of what the church considers to be immodest clothing.[7]This includes uncovering areas of the body that would normally be covered by the garment, such as the shoulders and lower thighs. Members are instructed to keep garments clean and mended and to refrain from displaying them or exposing them to the view of others who may not understand their significance.[7] Prior to the disposal of old garments, members are instructed to cut out the markings on them.[1][35] After the marks are removed, "the fabric is not considered sacred" and the garment fabric may be cut up and discarded or used for other purposes.[1][35] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment

I know this isn't very Christian of me but the thought did cross my mind...'wonder where these garments are made'?

“learn the truth instead of getting their "facts" from crazy like a Fox News or other people who simply parrot untruths they are told by other misguided and misinformed individuals.” – Tstar

“Tea Party zealots understand their worldview is too radical for mainstream America, reverting to the telling of lies and falsehoods to mask their radicalism” – Boo Bird
“But these extreme, right-wing types who identify as tea party members I find, as an American, to be down-right embarrassing in their loud, foolish, over-the-top rhetoric that is not representative of most Americans who are closer to moderate positions for the most part.: - Song 98
Wow, these are some pretty strong statements. Let’s look at some of the other posts here.
The first from ThankGodformakingmeanAthiest – “The Economist Magazine reports since 9/11 more Americans have been murdered by domestic far right wing crazies than by the Taliban/Al Queda,”

I tried to find this information but the best I could come up with was “Militants linked to al Qaeda or inspired by jihadist ideology have carried out four terrorist attacks in the United States since September 11, which have resulted in 17 deaths. Thirteen of them were in a shooting incident at Fort Hood, Texas, in November 2009.By contrast, right-wing extremists have committed at least eight lethal terrorist attacks in the United States that have resulted in the deaths of nine people since 9/11, according to data compiled by the New America Foundation.And if, after investigation, Sunday's attack on the Sikh temple in Wisconsin is included in this count, the death toll from right-wing terrorism in the U.S. over the past decade rises to 15.” http://articles.cnn.com/2012-08-07/opinion/opinion_bergen-terrorism-wisconsin_1_extremists-qaeda-white-supremacists
In my count 15 is not more than 17. In addition, trying to link the Tea Party to far right wing crazies – is well, crazy.
The second from Tstar “You speak of "taking away our freedoms"...if the Republicans win the election and have their way, women will be set back more than 100 yrs by trying to dictate a woman's healthcare. Men need to stay out of women's healthcare decisions...period! No man will tell us what birth control to use, what we do with our bodies, how many children to have or have not....EVER! I am just waiting for the Republican party as we know now it to try and bring clitoraldectomy into the fold. Their visions of women's healthcare issues are just that skewed and dangerous and they need to be voted down....way down!!”
Really – maybe you need to explain this to me. How exactly are they dictating a woman’s healthcare? How exactly are they telling you what birth control to use? How exactly are they telling you what to do with your body or how many children to have to not have? Please explain this. Is it because birth control will not be covered by all insurance policies? Is it because they believe in pro-life and don’t think taxpayers should pay for abortion?
Katybug – “You can easily find online that the US currently produces MORE oil than it consumes.” – So Katybug – somehow producing more than half of what we consume equals we produce MORE oil then we consume?
“ In 2010, we imported less than 50 percent of the oil our nation consumed—the first time that’s happened in 13 years—and the trend continued in 2011.” http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/03/01/our-dependence-foreign-oil-declining
Song 98- “"Ms. Reninger" in her letter only states right-wing Republican distortions, lies, scare tactics and talking points.” – It seems to me the left-wing liberals are doing their fair share of distortions, lies, scare tactics and talking points.
Jane Mackie “WOW! Watching Brian Williams... Rock Center...Topic Mormon in America” – Thanks Jane, does that now mean we can also discuss Jeremiah Wright?

I will be happy to oblige you i'mdebtfree! IF Republicans win the White House, Paul Ryan is in favor of overthrowing Roe v Wade and making ALL abortions illegal. No exceptions including pregnancy by rape, "legitimate or otherwise", incest or even if the mother's life is in danger. The Republican party is also banking on passing the personhood bill. "Paul Ryan has been a staunch advocate for pro-life causes, and is one of the 64 co-sponsors of H.R. 212, known as the Sanctity of Human Life Act, which pertains to the 14th Amendment, which states that "the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human being," and the bill makes the claim that "the life of each human being begins with fertilization."

Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/personhood-usa-praises-paul-ryans-pro-life-record-following-doubts-over-romney-80118/#ujXc6aS5cqaDGDqs.99

The passage of the personhood bill will then render hormonal types of birth control illegal including birth control pills, IUD's and even make in vitro fertilization illegal!! Seems like some men are dictating a woman's birth control to me! One note about the personhood bill...if and that is a BIG if it passes and a woman's fertilized egg is now considered a human being, will they also allow that said person to be claimed as a dependent on a tax return prior to birth and can they go back and amend that tax return if said birth turns out to be mulitple births? Sorry, that's just my tax consultant experience coming through...

At the risk of repeating myself from a previous post, I have 3 beautiful grandsons born via in vitro. Simply put, they would not have been born had it not been for in vitro. Passage of the personhood bill would kill any chance a childless couple would have had at having a family of their own. Seems like that would be yet another example of how passage of the personhood bill would not only dictate a woman's method of birth control, but also dictate how many children if any children she could have. Sure there is adoption, but not all couples are approved for adoption for numerous reasons and the majority of those reasons have nothing to do with how fit that couple would be as parents!

I stand by what I posted...men need to stay the heck out of women's healthcare issues and leave her reproductive freedom alone!!! Period!

Does that answer your question?

Below article is a very easy read; highly recommend. Have the Kleenex box at hand.


Temple wedding off limits to non-Mormon family

"It is easy to understand how feelings of exclusion can develop, but exclusion is never intended," says Farah, the (Mormon) church spokeswoman, citing the Mormons' "deep concern for those of other faiths who cannot attend the temple marriage of a loved one."

Interesting: "But in countries like England, France, Japan and Mexico, where Mormonism is not recognized as a legal marriage authority, a civil ceremony is allowed the same day."

Also, after reading the article, I wonder if Chase's parents will be allowed to attend the Baptism of their grandchildren?

“First, the bill doesn’t specifically outlaw vitro fertilization -- in fact, it doesn’t even mention the procedure by name. Rather, any impact the law could have would be an indirect consequence of provisions that are primarily aimed at stopping abortion. Second, the bill wouldn’t necessarily affect in vitro fertilization by itself. The bill empowers states to enact legislation that protects human life from conception, but it doesn’t appear to force them to do so.”
"At a minimum, (the bill) would force changes in the practice of reproductive medicine (e.g., limitations on the number of eggs that may be fertilized) that are not in patients’ best interests and constitute inferior medical practice," RESOLVE said.
“UltraViolet has a point that the bill Ryan backed could significantly alter the way in vitro fertilization is practiced. However, the group exaggerates when it says the bill in question would "outlaw in vitro fertilization."
Let’s take a look at the extreme other side -
Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.
If criteria such as the costs (social, psychological, economic) for the potential parents are good enough reasons for having an abortion even when the fetus is healthy, if the moral status of the newborn is the same as that of the infant and if neither has any moral value by virtue of being a potential person, then the same reasons which justify abortion should also justify the killing of the potential person when it is at the stage of a newborn.

Debt, You gave information that of how much we imported in 2010.
In 2011 we exported MORE than we imported and the trend was expected to continue for 2012. It was all over the news. Even Fox via O'Reilly discussed why our prices are still so high.

Our "dependence on middle eastern oil" is a falsehood even at its core. Google up where the US does import from and you will find of that, middle eastern countries even combined is not where we get the most of imports. When we are discussing imports.

Again my point stands, is the highly remote possibility of much cheaper gas worth the risk to our Virginia coastline and its revenue? Considering that Romney flat out said he intends to drill off our coast, its a very fair consideration for any Virginia voter.

Let me point out that I am not advocating for or against abortion. I am merely pointing out the continued distortions, lies, scare tactics and talking points that the left seems capable of as well. In addition, be careful of how much you want to government to control your healthcare– it can go both ways.

Katybug – this information was from a Whitehouse.gov blog dated March 1, 2012. You stated “You can easily find online that the US currently produces MORE oil than it consumes.” This is false, while dependence has gone down we do NOT produce MORE then we consume. The Whitehouse.gov blog also goes on to say “This includes everything from tapping our offshore oil supplies and vast natural gas reserves, to doubling down on clean energy resources like wind and solar power, and developing new technologies that help us use less energy altogether. This is the strategy President Obama has been pursuing since he took office, but there’s still more to be done.”
So it is OK for Obama to want to tap into offshore oil supplies but not Romney?

BTW Debt, ty for coming back to the discussion with more than a one sentence swipe at the opposition. Even on opposite sides, its appreciated.

Abortion. The simple answer for those who believe it is wrong is not to have one. In the past few weeks we have a Republican basically stating that women have an automatic eject button if its legitimate rape, we have another Republican stating he has never heard of pregnancy via rape or incest (Mind you the witch hunt of the Dr who didn't force a 10 year old mentally retarded CHILD to have the baby she was carrying as a result of incest has been all over the news). We THEN have Romney state his platform makes exceptions...immediately followed by the GOP releasing its platform, does not carry exceptions.
That is slavery, and we abolished that. The extreme from the right is to force that 10 year old to have a baby, and that is just sick.
Moreover, if say there is the rape exception, I as a woman and a mother of daughters would never be okay with a bunch of men deciding what constitutes rape. Or deciding the process of proof one must have to go through after already being violated in the worst possible way. NEVER. Those extremes are why every woman should continue the fight to keep the government out of our bodies.

I'mdebtfree, in response to your addressing what I said regarding "Ms. Reninger's" letter being filled with distorations, lies, scare tactics, and talking points": you then said "It seems to me the left-wing liberals are doing their fair share of distorations, lies, scare tactics, and talking points". Why don't you then read my NEXT sentence in which I said "---you can go to a number of non-partisan fact-checking sites to find what the truth is". The Illeen Reninger letter sounds like something written by the group who write the Karl Rove Crossroads GPS ads.

Everyone acknowledges that there has always been (and will probably always be) truth-stretching in the campaigns of both sides, but nothing from the Obama side is like the out-and-out lie (about gutting the work requirement in welfare reform) Romney has used in numerous ads, approved by him, and he and his surrogates have repeated in forum after forum. Romney has the audacity to premise one of the central arguments of his campaign on a complete lie. The Romney campaign lie that the Obama administration has "adopted a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements" has been called completely FALSE time after time by independent, non-partisan groups. But lie-telling does not seem to concern Romney and his surrogates.

The "Ms. Reninger" letter claims that the president "took money out of the medicare trust fund to pay for those without insurance" which factcheck.org has said is NOT true. As factcheck says, the law does not take money out of the existing hospital insurance trust fund but what it does is it cuts the future growth of spending----it extends the life of medicare. And, according to factcheck, "in the future seniors will still receive more in benefits than they paid in", under the Obama plan.

I would also like to ask "Ms. Reninger" why Romney/Ryan makes VERY sure to remind us over and over that their plan to offer "a voucher for seniors to buy their own health insurance" would not apply to those of us over 55". Why don't you ask Romney and Ryan, "Ms. Reninger", why if it is as great a plan as they say, why then is it not going to be offered to those in Medicare now? I mean, if it is so great-----------?? I know the answer to that, and I bet you do too I'mdebtfree.

This is so funny debt. It looks like you stirred up a nest of killer bees. You are a real big bear in their honey. Anyway, you are wasting your time talking facts to these people. The only facts they know are the ones that justify their means.

No Debt, I'm not saying it is or isn't okay to drill our own oil. For any President. I'm saying that each voter has to decide if the potential is worth the risk to our coastline and the revenue it brings our state.

With a mighty effort, 'debt' swings for the fences, but dribbles it foul.
The far left crowd cheers!
The far right crowd cheers!
The count is 2 strikes and no balls.
(dare I say literally?)
Teatime exhales.... help has arrived just as he was running out of bumper stickers.


I'mdebtfree, you asked a legitimate question when you said "--is it ok for Obama to want to tap into off-shore oil supplies but not Romney?" BUT, there is a really important point to consider in that answer and that is which one can we trust "being in charge" of Big Business Oil Companies drilling off our shores? Oil companies, I might add, who have as their priority the bottom line--their profits with all else coming in a distant second.

I was down in Louisiana shortly after the BP oil spill and it was pathetic and sad to see. An investigative panel after months-long investigation determined that "the oil spill was an avoidable disaster caused by a series of failures and blunders" in which they blame BP, their partners and the gov. agency that was suppose to regulate them but was not doing it's job. So my answer to you would be, only when stringent and serious regulations are actually in place AND being enforced should we even consider drilling off-shore. And it is no surprise that between the two parties, which is the party that wants to slash regulations? Yep----Republicans! I guess you could say, tongue-in-cheek, "that Republicans have never met a regulation they wouldn't love to get rid of".

You will probably tell me regulations were in place with the BP spill and it still happened, and I say yes, heads should roll because the regs were not being enforced correctly, but the emphasis should be on actually enforcing regulations and not on slashing them! That problem is not solved by "getting rid of the baby with the bathwater".

Debt: Thanks Jane, does that now mean we can also discuss Jeremiah Wright?

Well, of course, Debt, please feel free; but Wright has been discussed ad nauseam as Google can attest. I'll even start you off with my experience with the Church of Christ albeit not with Jeremiah Wright as pastor of ca 6,000. Raised and baptised in a Southern Baptist Church; but, since my first husband was raised in the Church of Christ and wanting to please him, I started going to the COC with him and his mother every Sunday. From the moment the minister started his sermon, it was not about God, Jesus, the Bible, or salvation...it was all about the evils of the Catholic Church. Disgust is the only emotion I felt walking out of Church that Sunday morning. Still I tried to adapt for six or seven more months until I just couldn't stomach these down-with-Catholics Sunday sermons, so I opted out leaving my husband and his mother to their own devices.

Many Americans view Obama's diverse past as a negative, and I just can not understand how any person with even a little knowledge of what we are coping with in this global age can view his vast exposure as anything other than positive. We have no indication that he is other than a good person, good husband, good father, and good son-in-law. We have never heard any horror stories about him throwing a fellow student to the ground, holding him down, and cutting his hair off like that incident performed by an 18 year old Mitt Romney during prep school years. Twenty-three year old Obama worked as a community organizer prior to earning his law degree, was a civil rights attorney and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004 (12 years). He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004, prior to being elected to Congress. Yet, Romney constantly regurgitates that 'Obama has no private sector experience. PolitiFact ruling: "Obama may not have the corporate chops of Romney, but he’s worked in several jobs in the private sector -- and had management experience. And if you count his best-selling books that have brought Obama millions of dollars in royalties, he also knows something about entrepreneurship. We rate Romney’s statement False."

To give us a preview of how Romney perceives a citizen's responsibility in supporting the President of the United States of America, during the New Hampshire debate Mitt Romney openly and rather surprisingly harshly attacked Huntsman for accepting a position as Ambassador to China at President Obama's request. “I was criticized last night by Governor Romney for putting my country first,” Huntsman said in the NBC/Facebook debate from New Hampshire. “He criticized me, while he was out raising money, for serving my country in China, yes, under a Democrat, like my two sons are doing in the United States Navy. They’re not asking who — what political affiliation the president is. I want to be very clear with the people here in New Hampshire and this country: I will always put my country first. And I think that’s important to them.” (Amen, Brother Huntsman.) While governor, Huntsman was named chairman of the Western Governors Association, and joined the Executive Committee of the National Governors Association. Under his leadership, Utah was named the best managed state in America by the Pew Center on the States. He won re-election in 2008 with nearly 78% of the vote and left office with approval ratings over 80%. If the Republicans had more men like Jon Huntsman, maybe I would consider voting Republican again. Clinton has already stated that she will step down as Sec of State after her present term; I would love to see Huntsman in that position. Huntsman will probably never make any rank in today's Republican party because country, not money, is his driver.

As I posted earlier, Romney's unwillingness to stand up to the voices of crazies within his own party is one of the things I most dislike about him. Romney totally lacks any honor in dealing with anyone who crosses him and no amount of money can buy honor.

Republicans claim the president’s $716 billion “cuts” to Medicare hurt the program’s finances. But the opposite is true. These cuts in the future growth of spending prolong the life of the Medicare trust fund, stretching the program’s finances out longer than they would last otherwise.


Did he REALLY say that?

Ryan on abortion exceptions: "Rape is just another ‘method of conception"

“I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea that, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life,” Ryan explained. “But let’s remember, I’m joining the Romney-Ryan ticket. And the president makes policy.”

Romney to reporter: "No questions about abortion or Todd Akin"

“You know, I had about five minutes with him, and we got through a fair amount of material, actually, in that five minutes,” reporter Shaun Boyd said. “The one stipulation to the interview was that I not ask him about abortion or Todd Akin"

Ah! don't you love it when a plan comes together?

I posted this on Troy Dean's Aug. 22, 2012 Letter

2009 - http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901-2
No. 1: Firing the Chairman
In 1987 the Reagan administration decided to remove Paul Volcker as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board and appoint Alan Greenspan in his place. Volcker had done what central bankers are supposed to do. On his watch, inflation had been brought down from more than 11 percent to under 4 percent. In the world of central banking, that should have earned him a grade of A+++ and assured his re-appointment. But Volcker also understood that financial markets need to be regulated. Reagan wanted someone who did not believe any such thing, and he found him in a devotee of the objectivist philosopher and free-market zealot Ayn Rand. ("The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," ~Paul Ryan)


“I was an advocate of the deregulation movement and I made — along with other, a lot of smarter people — made a fundamental mistake, which is that deregulation works fine in industries which do not pervade the economy in their consequences,” he said. “The financial industry undergirds the entire economy and if it is made riskier by deregulation and collapses and widespread bankrupties the entire economy freezes because it runs on credit.”

Posner, who was appointed to the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals by President Ronald Reagan, is associated with the conservative Chicago School of economics.


I'mdebtfree stated "In my count 15 is not more than 17." Even that count is disturbing.

"Following the 5 August 2012 shooting at a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, START researchers compiled background information from the United States Extremist Crime Database (ECDB) on ideologically motivated far-right violence in the United States, generally, and far-right extremist crimes related to religion and religious institutions, specifically.

"Between 1990 and 2010 there were 145 ideologically motivated homicide incidents committed by far-right extremists in the United States.

--Including the Oklahoma City Bombing, which killed 168 individuals, far-right extremists killed 348 individuals during ideologically motivated homicide events between 1990 and 2010. Excluding that attack, far-right extremists killed 180 individuals between 1990 and 2010.
--58 percent of the victims of ideologically motivated far-right violence were killed by perpetrators using firearms.
--More than half of the victims of far-right violence were targeted because they were racial/ethnic minorities.
--37 percent of these homicide incidents were perpetrated by a lone individual.
--32 law enforcement officers were killed in the line of duty by far-right extremists during ideologically motivated attacks. In addition, corrections officers, private security guards, and a judge have been killed during ideologically motivated attacks.
--For 10 percent of perpetrators, there was evidence that they expected to be killed or captured while committing their crimes.
--Almost 5 percent of perpetrators were killed by law enforcement during the commission of their crimes.

--In September and October of 2001 two men were killed in Texas because a white supremacist believed they were Muslim. One of the homicide victims was Muslim, and the second was Hindu.
--In July 2008, two individuals were shot and killed at a Unitarian Church in Knoxville, Tennessee. The church was a target of far-right violence because of its liberal ideology.


Gary LaFree, a professor of criminology and criminal justice at the Univ of MD and the director of the National Center for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START). His main areas of expertise are sociology, criminology, race and crime, and terrorism.

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 1,018 active hate groups in the United States in 2011; 34 listed in Virginia. (splcenter.org)

The 'feeding' of these groups fall on the shoulders of individuals such as Limbaugh, Beck, and their supporters. For example....

"First the Department of Homeland Security ordered 450 million rounds of ammunition, then the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) submitted an order for 46,000 rounds of high powered ammo, and now Business Insider reports that the Social Security Administration is asking to purchase 174,000 rounds of .357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point bullets....This type of ammunition is arguably one of the more powerful available."

TheBlaze is a conservative news and opinion website owned by American media personality and former CNN Headline News and Fox News host Glenn Beck's Mercury Radio Arts. The website was launched three days after Beck's widely publicized Restoring Honor rally (August 28, 2010) at the Lincoln Memorialin Washington, D. C.

''...if you take what I say as gospel, you're an idiot.'' ~ —Glenn Beck, New York Times, March 29, 2009

Illeen Reninger,

Yet another example of the man Romney....

PolitiFact Says Mitt Romney is wrong to claim that spending under Obama has "accelerated at a pace without precedent in recent history," because it's actually risen "slower than at any time in nearly 60 years."


Pat Robertson, the evangelical Christian who once suggested God was punishing Americans with Hurricane Katrina, says a "pact to the devil" brought on the devastating earthquake in Haiti.

Hum, wonder what Robertson has to say about Issac forcing the delay of the RNC?

It is widely known that Shenandoah Valley harbors a few residents and members of the Tea Party and evangelical fundamentalists who are more than willing to take it to the streets with guns ablaze if Obama wins reelection. Warren County Sheriff McEathron acquired an armored assault vehicle to deal with situations and threats of this nature.

All it takes are a few crazy people with guns to take their tirades to heart and begin shooting when things don't go their way. The more vehement the blather, the more likely the Tea Party crazies are to "go postal" and shoot into a crowd of innocent men, women, and children.

Who do the Tea Party crazies and the evangelical fundamentalists see as their gun-toting spokespersons?

Ted Nugent earlier this year said, “If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year” insinuating he will take matters into his own hands with gun play if the President wins re-election.

At a 2008 concert, washed-up rocker Ted Nugent said while holding a gun in each hand, “Hey, Obama, you might wanna suck on one of these, you punk” and extended the threat to now-Secretary of State Clinton saying, ”Hillary, you might wanna ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch.” These threats of extremist violence brought the Secret Service to his door for an interview.

Last week, red necked country musician Hank Williams Jr. waited until the end of his show to impugn the President for being “a Muslim who hates farming, hates the military, hates the U.S. and we hate him!” Earlier similar remarks from Williams resulted in Monday Night Football removing his theme song from playing at the start of the program.

All of the threats of armed revolution have as their basis one simple fact; the President is not a white man. The Democrat Party is a coalition of diverse races, religions, and views that truly represent the greatest cross section of Americans. The Republican Party is comprised almost exclusively of like-minded angry old white guys and elite super rich preying on the middle class. Democrats are not necessarily winning Latinos, Asians, and other minorities over so much as it is the Republican Party's 'rich white man first' rhetoric driving them away. Keeping the Republican Party 'all white' plays into the minds of Shenandoah Valley's white rural population of mostly undereducated low income simple-minded Tea Party simpletons.

More alarming than the implicit threats of gun violence, the so-called second amendment solution, is the silent endorsement by the core leadership of the Republican Party. What are the leaders thinking when they do not condemn violence as a political solution for America's political differences?

The Virginia Republican Committee March newsletter supported the overthrow of the government if the President wins a second term. The Virginia Republican Committee is guilty of inciting rebellion by allowing their candidates, spokespersons, and members of Congress to openly call for armed rebellion against the government of the United States. It is these angry old white guys who pose the greatest threat to American security.

I sometimes wonder if 'teatime' and his helper 'debt' " are some of the Shenandoah Valley Tea Party evangelical fundamentalist crazies who idolize and will endorse this kind of in-your-face armed revolution rhetoric?

Watched Fox News Sunday Wallace-Romney interview. Good interview.

Katybug, Thanks for your last post. A little bio on Christ, the former Republican governor of Florida suporting Obama. Charles "Charlie" Crist, Jr. was the 44th Governor of Florida. Prior to his election as governor, Crist served as Florida State Senator, Education Commissioner, and Attorney General. He was elected governor in 2006 with 52.4 percent of the vote (against opponent Jim Davis), and took office the following year. He was defeated by Rubio who has been called the "crown prince" of the Tea Party movement.

Crist was know as a law-and-order senator, sponsoring legislation requiring inmates to serve at least 85% of their sentences before becoming eligible for parole; he supported teacher salary increases; as Senator he pursued an investigation into actions of then-governor Lawton Chiles amid allegations that Chiles' campaign had made "scare calls" to senior citizens days before the 1994 gubernatorial election. Chiles eventually testified before Crist and the committee and admitted that his campaign had made the calls. Crist signed a law expanding health coverage statewide for autism disorders and he has also signed legislation expanding low-income coverage and creating public and private insurance options in the state. Christ father is still a practicing physician at Saint Anthonys Primary Care in FL.

I was more than a little disturbed reading about Virginians as such. When you hear on the news about the judge in Texas saying they need more funding to hire deputies for the civil war...you think, "well its Texas... they gave us GWB...intelligence isn't bigger in Texas". But having such blatant disregard for democracy so close to home is infinitely more worrisome.

And yet, there is the part of me that almost wants to encourage them, just so we can get rid of them and continue moving forward. A removal of the chains holding America back from full recovery. Sadly, innocents would be hurt in the process.

We are wondering if you have fact or information that would indicate there are such factions in the Valley who would attempt such a thing. If so, by all means, contact the proper authorities. It would appear to us these comments are rather extreme and if there is such fear of this happening in the Valley, perhaps some of us should pack up and move to a safer environment. Also, we want to make it clear, we are not members of the Tea Party nor have we ever been to a Tea Party meeting. We have been residents of the Valley area all of our lives and not all residents are so undereducated that they cannot make a rational decision. Finally, we read many comments about the "radical right". Well, now is the "radical left" starting to surface. Something to think about!!!!

Thank you sjf for your calm reply to an outrageous post. I was shocked by the innuendo Whooppee put forth and I’m glad you were able to politely point out the extreme nature of what Whooppee wrote and clarify that we are merely residents here in the Valley that may just have a different point of view. I have only been joining in posting to try to debate the issues. I do this with close friends as well and while we agree to disagree we remain friends. Bottom line is we all want what is best for everyone, we just have different viewpoints of how to get there.

We have been reading the comments to various articles in the NVD for some months now. It was and still is, interesting to us to see what people are thinking and how they feel about certain issues. We will always respect the individuals right to do so regardless of our personal views. However, there are some things that are just too much and sometimes you feel like you want to make it clear what a wonderful area the Valley is and how so many of the residents are such great individuals. Of course, things are never perfect anywhere and things have to change. Such is life. I like to think that we can disagree in a reasonable manner and move on.

I definately think hank, and especially Ted Nugents verbal assault on the president is a bit Whacked out. Nugent is Nugent. I used to have a little more respect for him. I'm not educated enough on the NRA, I get calls from them occasionally for support. I don't give them much support over the phone, especially when they were supporting people having semi-automatic guns.

I grew up with a right sided republican, and we have had some heated arguments head to head. Through the years we have acknowledged each others views, and still are good friends. "I guess we don't bring up politics in a lot of social settings"

I like the quote from earlier about Pat Robertson and Huricane Issacc, that was a good one.

Katybug: Since viewing comments on line, we have always felt it was best just to make a statement regarding an issue and leave it at that. Today, we have made an exception. Our only comment regarding this is for you to take another loook at the last paragraph of your position. Is this not thre "radical left"? ENOUGH SAID.

The multitude which is not brought to act as a unity, is confusion. That unity which has not its origin in the multitude is tyranny. ~ Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) French mathematician, physicist and philosopher.

In other words....

If everyone helps to hold up the sky, then one person does not become tired. - Unknown

SJF, I invite you to re-read what I said. I did say "almost" BECAUSE I realize innocent people would be harmed. To hope that those that would do us harm fall on their own sword is no more radical than being happy when it was announced Bin Laden was dead. Its no more radical then when reading a story about child abuse thinking to ones self "boy, I hope they put that b*****d in gen pop". If by wanting karma to visit those that do wrong makes one radical, then by your definition every single human walking the earth is radical. If by hoping a swift end to those that would take up violence because they didn't get their way when the people ELECTED a president makes me a radical in your eyes, then that is a cross I will gladly bear. Elections are a fair and democratic process, unlike the tyranny those fanatics would hope to impose.

Now, as far as specifically calling anyone out. "I" wouldn't unless I had positive proof of their views. Debt does not fit into that category, and I like Debt's input, due to actually bringing something to the table and not just taking a swipe. "Teatime" on the other hand proudly proclaims their views in using it as their said name.

But it would also be gravely naive to believe that there are not those around us locally that would happily take off the thin veil of hatred/ignorance they have hidden behind. The bigger issue here is the shrinking true Republican Party due to its acceptance with open arms of the extremes. In its fear of becoming obsolete it the Party will readily accept those calling for such treasonous acts. The Republican Party has decided that maintaining that hold is more important than its country, its more important than succeeding as a nation. America can burn for all they care, as long as they are in power when it happens.

'sjf' (still a Republican??) and GOP apologist and shill 'debt' do not condemn or disavow or distance themselves from their political brethren whose ideologies they share, who wave their guns in the air and threaten armed rebellion should President Obama win reelection. No, the main concern expressed by 'sjf' and 'debt' is to publicly declare they are not members of the Tea Party. They suggest the remedy for citizens who are afraid of Tea Party violence should pack up and move somewhere else to avoid being killed.

Republicans calling for armed insurrection against the government is nothing new, and few are apt to forget congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) saying "I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back,”. Bachmann continued that, “we the people are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country,” and encouraged Americans “to do everything we can to thwart the Democrats at every turn,” and apparently that included the aforementioned armed rebellion.


"President Obama, is a “political socialist ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized,” and that the only option is “armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November:” If one is confused as to what Republicans consider is a “political socialist ideologue,” the newsletter claims President Obama “shuns biblical praise, handicaps economic ability, disrespects the honor of earned military might,” and that under Obama, “the government is out of control, and this opportunity, must not be forsaken for we shall not have any coarse (sic) but armed revolution.”

"The Virginia Republican Committee newsletter was published in March, and the media or Republican leadership have been silent, and regardless if they support the overthrow of the government if the President wins a second term or not, they are guilty of inciting rebellion by allowing their candidates, spokespersons, and members of Congress to openly call for armed rebellion against the government of the United States"


The editor of the Greene County Virginia GOP Newsletter, Ponch McPhee urges readers to encourage other conservatives to vote in November. He goes on to warn that the consequences of not defeating Obama, a so-called "ideologue unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized," would be dire.

"[W]e shall not have any coarse [sic] but armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November," McPhee writes."This Republic cannot survive for 4 more years underneath this political socialist ideologue."
A disclaimer at the bottom of the publication apparently attempts to account for this type of rhetoric, noting that the contributors do "not reflect the opinion of the Republican Party whole or in part" and are only representative of the "individual" -- in this case, the editor himself.

You may download a copy of the complete Greene County GOP March newsletter in PDF or MSWord formats here:


Is it scary as a US citizen to see how threats to the President of the United States are handled today when only nine years ago the Dixie Chicks were nationally shunned for exercising their First Amendment rights!!!! If memory serves, Natalie Maines said that he "made her ashamed to be from Texas," she DID NOT THREATEN GWB!!!!! As a result of that comment, in 2003 country stations in the U.S. effectively boycotted The Dixie Chicks, who were one of the top country acts from 1998 to 2003 with 14 top 10 country hits, when Natalie Maines stated her opinion of President GW Bush in London at the start of the Iraq War; stations stopped playing their music, especially in the South. Has there ever been any big act shunned for exercising their First Amendment rights of the magnitude imposed on these young women?

Now, as I posted before, Nuggett's remarks are inflammatory by any rational persons' interpretation. Romney has refused, even when directly asked, to distance himself from this individual. Should Romney become president and someone threaten him -- do you believe he will dismiss it? Romney is not a good person, Period.

Rove: Obama ‘never said thank you’ when Romney admitted he was born in U.S.

Dear God, I realize that you made idiots too!


It never fails to amaze how low the Republicans will stoop to discredit President Obama and the Democrats. The favorite and most despicable ploy to discredit is associate Hitler's death camps as indistinguishable from actions of the Democrats.

"American Family Association spokesman Bryan Fischer on Focal Point today scolded the Democratic Party for promoting pro-choice speakers for the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, saying that the convention has turned into a “three day death camp.” After quoting HotAir blogger Ed Morrissey who called the DNC “abortion-palooza,” Fischer said the DNC will be a “three day Auschwitz.”


SO Not Adolf Hitler: President Obama and Right-Wing Fear


I'm liking that site more and more. It is rather comical that when all else false Republicans compare Obama to Hitler...Yet show it in their own actions.

This opinion Im stating has nothing at all to do with the above article. But the only song I really know from Nugent is "cat scratch fever", I believe that is the song. And It's not really a song. He just stroming the guitar and repeating cat scratch fever. ....I'llhave to google the lyrics, but I may be wrong.
I remember them dixie chicks getting alot of flack, but I tell you they are definately very talented and sound alot better then T. Nugent. If I remember right he was just basically a really good guitarist.

*all else fails

Whooppee, have we reached the end of civility among our politicians? I think so.

GOPAC is a Republican (GOP) state and local political training organization. The "GOPAC memo", called "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control", was written and distributed to members of the Republican Party by Gingrich in 1994. It contained a list of "contrasting words" and "optimistic positive governing words" that Gingrich recommended for use in describing Democrats and Republicans, respectively. For example, words to use against opponents include decay, failure (fail), collapse(ing), deeper, crisis, urgent(cy), destructive, destroy, sick, pathetic, lie, liberal, they/them, unionized bureaucracy, "compassion" is not enough, betray, consequences, limit(s), shallow, traitors, sensationalists; words to use in defining a candidate's own campaign and vision included share, change, opportunity, legacy, challenge, control, truth, moral, courage, reform, prosperity, crusade, movement, children, family, debate, compete, active(ly), we/us/our, candid(ly), humane, pristine, provide.
The cover page of the memo said: "The words in that paper are tested language from a recent series of focus groups where we actually tested ideas and language

The American people are no longer interested in helping each other as a nation. United is a foreign word to this country anymore. During 9/11, a plane landed in Canada and the Canadians opened their homes up to those passengers. Can you image Americans doing that? No! Living overseas, I saw some horrible treatment of humans and I thought that would never happen in our country; but, I was wrong. The U.S. is beginning down that path and it won't be long before this once great nation is nothing more than just another pathetic third world country.

On August 24, 1963, Khrushchev remarked in his speech in Yugoslavia, "I once said, 'We will bury you,' and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you,"... "The proletariat** is the undertaker of capitalism**", based on the concluding statement in Chapter 1 of the Communist Manifesto: "What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable". Khrushchev repeated this Marxist thesis at a meeting with journalists in the U.S. in September 1959.

*Proletariat is a term used to identify a lower social class, usually the working class.

'Eight Years Was Awesome, And I Was Famous And I Was Powerful' ~George W. Bush

It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. ~James A. Baldwin

"Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"

“We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid.” ― Christopher Hitchens

“Your conscience is the measure of the honesty of your selfishness. Listen to it carefully.” ~ ― Richard Bach,

Sheldon Adelson (business magnate with casinos in Nevada, Singapore, and Macau) was first the financial backer for Newt Gingrich and now for Romney; he even accompanied Romney on the recent trip to Israel. According to Forbes 400, Adleson is listed as the eighth wealthiest American; his personal wealth is estimated to be $24.9 billion as of March 2012

Forbes has confirmed that billionaire Sheldon Adelson, along with his wife Miriam, has donated $10 million to the leading Super PAC supporting presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney–and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. A well-placed source in the Adelson camp with direct knowledge of the casino billionaire’s thinking says that further donations will be “limitless.”

Thanks to the Citizens United decision, there are no curbs on how much Adelson could give the pro-Romney Super PAC, Restoring Our Future. Given that he’s one of the 15 richest people in the world, the Sands chairman could personally bankroll the equivalent of entire presidential campaign–say, $1 billion or so–and not even notice. (Forbes)

Adelson has pledged as much as $100 million to defeat President Barack Obama. Originally a Democrat, Adelson became a Republican as his wealth increased. "Why is it fair that I should be paying a higher percentage of taxes than anyone else?" he once asked. He began making major contributions to the Republican National Committee following clashes with labor unions at his Las Vegas properties.

I think Todd Akin said it best when he stated that a woman's body knows the difference between forcible rape and plain old sex and her "body has ways to shut that whole thing down" thus greatly reducing if not eliminating the chance of pregnancy from rape. If that statement alone does not scream that at least men on the Republican side are totally clueless when it comes to women's healthcare issues, I don't know what does! Oh, no, wait! Gov Bob McDonnell may have also proven it when he passed a law requiring women to be subjected to transvaginal ultra sound probes before abortions. That is rape by penetration no matter how you look at it! It is done without the woman's permission, nor the permission of her doctor but rather DICTATED by our government!

Hmmm...wonder if the left could come up with a law making castration the punishment for stupid men in our government. As they say....stupid people shouldn't breed!

For you guys that missed the Wallace-Romney interview, here is a picture of the Romney's NH summer home.


I was surprised to see the picture as the FOX camera angles made it look much smaller. Beautiful, huh?

Paul Ryan's Medicare Plan Will Hurt Old People; Paul Ryan's Security Guys HAVE Hurt Old People


There you go Illeen Reninger, see for yourself GOP's good intentions.

Well, Pat Robinson didn't disappoint us.

"The religious lifestyle show hosted by televangelist Pat Robertson on Monday suggested that Christians in Florida had convinced God to move soon-to-be Hurricane Isaac away from Tampa, Florida to protect Republicans."


Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney insists that he didn’t shut down his tax shelters in the Cayman Islands, Bermuda and Switzerland because it would “avoid the truth” and he wasn’t going to “manipulate my life” just to become president. (REPEAT: he wasn’t going to “manipulate my life” just to become president. Now, the real Mitt Romney speaks up!)

“First of all, there was no reduction — not one dollar reduction — in taxes by virtue of having an account in Switzerland or a Cayman Islands investment,” Romney explained. “The dollars of taxes remained exactly the same. There was no tax savings at all. And the conduct of the trustee and making investments was entirely consistent with U.S. law and all the taxes paid were those legally owed and there was no tax saving by virtue of those entities.” (Yes. We need to take him at his word; he has proven on numerous occasions that he does not lie, right?)


Okay, good citizens, how many of you are buying that one?

“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.” ~ ― Socrates, Essential Thinkers


Notice in the above clip Romney said his foreign accounts/investments " were done by a 'blind trust' and he declared he "had no involvement in this."

which makes the below clip excruciatingly revealing.


And I LOVE the theatricality staged-setting--little white picket fence, little red barn (better than GW's old gray one) and the pièce de résistance, the two little bales of hay.

SAN ANTONIO —Local officials in Texas are discussing whether to band together to expand Medicaid coverage in some of the state’s biggest counties, making an end run around Gov. Rick Perry’s opposition to the expanded program included in President Obama’s health-care law.


Leave a comment

What do you think?

(You may use HTML tags for style)


Comments that are posted on nvdaily.com represent the opinion of the commenter and not the Northern Virginia Daily/nvdaily.com. If you feel that a comment is objectionable, please click on the Report Abuse link above. We will review the reported comment and make a decision on deleting it if we feel that it contains inappropriate content.


Opinion Sections

Carolyn Long Editorial Cartoons Editorials Jules Witcover Leonard Pitts Jr. Letters to the Editor Linda Ash Mary Sanchez Paul Greenberg Reader Commentary

News | Sports | Business | Lifestyle | Obituaries | Opinion | Multimedia| Entertainment | Homes | Classifieds
Contact Us | NIE | Place a Classified | Privacy Policy | Subscribe

Copyright © The Northern Virginia Daily | nvdaily.com | 152 N. Holliday St., Strasburg, Va. 22657 | (800) 296-5137

Best Small Daily Newspaper in Virginia!

nvdaily.com | seeshenandoah.com