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Letter to the Editor: Enough with the Bush blaming


Those who cling to the excuse that President Bush is to blame for America's economic decline are refusing to acknowledge policy blunders of the past 3½ years. It's foolish and unreasonable to believe that the financial harm caused by overspending during the last year of Bush's second term could be corrected by continued overspending under Obama.

The post Bush economy was denied any shot at recovery thanks to Obama's drive for increased federal spending and regulation, key ingredients for free market failure. Instead of embracing America's economy and making adjustments for recovery, Obama responded with more spending. Big spending is not likely to fix a problem that big spending started.

Obama has had time to make changes, but his policies failed. By his own admission, if America's economy has not recovered in three years he would be looking at a one-term proposition. Since our economy remains a failure, we should use our votes to turn that statement into fact.

The dismal economic indicators tell a story about how Obama's policies continued to weaken an economy that could have been restored. As the economy suffered, so did jobless Americans. As the suffering continued, federal entitlement increases followed and are at a level never seen in modern times. Was this the result he was looking for?

As long as the federal government continues to expand, you can expect that federal regulations will do the same, and those regulations will diminish our personal freedoms because the feds will be making many of our decision for us. And through it all we'll hear less about American exceptionalism and more about European standards. Obama chooses to remain on the same economic path even as the economy crumbles around him. At this point he owns this failed economy. To blame Bush is ludicrous and desperate.

Remember that liberty once lost is rarely recovered. It's time to stop playing the blame Bush card. Obama has earned the rights to this failed economy by his refusal to correct it. Cast your vote to restore America, not a vote to restore Obama.

Leroy Donald, Stephens City


mr. donald, let me make sure i got this right, "overspending during the last year of bush's second term", are you trying to convince you, or us ??? makes me thing you may have been his speech writter. wake up alice.

Who is the president, jaydondance? The buck stops here and now, not four years previous. This is Obama's tar baby now, no matter how he tries to spin it.

Mr. Donald: Thank you for your comments. We need to hear from all sides. It would appear from a number of on line comments that the problems facing our Country are the fault of the Bush Administration, Fox News, the Catholics, the Tea Party, and occasionally and when all else fails, a hint of racisim. There are those of us out here who do share your views!!!

There is probably no easier way to beckon a smirk to the lips of a liberal intellectual than to mention President Bush's invocation of the notion of evil.

During the ears of the Bush administrations, the late night talk shows averaged 5 Bush I.Q. jokes a night. (Example: His eyes are so close together he could use a monocle.) There's no one I know who can't do that. Bush is now the joke that stupid people laugh at. It's a joke that any dumb person can laugh at because they think they can prove they're smarter than President Bush. And they can.

Bush did many stupid things in order to avoid looking stupid. One of Bush's first presidential acts was to forbid federal funding for any group overseas that even gives advice on abortion. This is, by all reports, just the compassionate treatment that the African AIDS epidemic needed.

Bush was sitting awkwardly on an infant-classroom chair in Florida when he got the news from New York and Washington. We got it on camera. No chief executive has ever looked so small and shrunken in public. That image has become his metaphor.

Bush’s first post-attack speeches were almost laughable in their timidity. He didn't hit Afghanistan for almost a month. He found a voice only when talking to rescue workers in New York, and if you can't sound macho when denouncing al Qaeda and the Taliban on a mass American grave, you ought not to be president at all.

George Tenet's reaction to hearing of the Twin Towers in conflagration was to say that he wondered if it had anything to do with that guy in the flight-training school in Minnesota. For this, Bush gave him a Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Much nodding was required at Bush’s public events, as sympathetic but baffled audiences did their decent best to show that they know what he thinks he meant to say.

Bush is unusually incurious, abnormally unintelligent, amazingly inarticulate, fantastically uncultured, extraordinarily uneducated, and apparently quite proud of all these things. He is the least smart guy ever to have sought the office; a dingbat and a stumbler and a dyslexic and a former piss-artist who has the same chance of finding his own rear end with both hands as he once had of parking his car without scraping a wall.

I think the guy from Wayne's World would be a better president than George Bush, who has nothing between his ears but perfectly fresh air. Bush once appointed an attorney general, John Ashcroft, who knew so little about the United States Constitution that he announced that, in America, 'we have no king but Jesus.' That moronic statement was exactly two words too long.

One day Bush lovers may understand that a president cannot create a principled call to war --'hostages,' 'Hitler,' 'ruthless dictator,' 'naked aggression', when matters of principle have never been the issue for him and his type.

The lessons to be learned from the Bush years are:

· Beware the irrational, however seductive.
· Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself.
· Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others.
· Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish.
· Picture all experts as if they were insects.
· Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity.
· Suspect your own motives, and all excuses.
· Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.
· Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence.

While I do despise Bush, his immediate reaction sitting in a classroom full of small children to 9-11, as a parent I commend. I can not imagine being President of the US and being told we are under attack while I am reading to children. He did maintain his composure and not alarm the children in any way while I imagine he was being hit by a variety of different emotions. His dealings with the attack from that point, not so much. But I can't fault him for the position he was in when alerted and still only commend his not alarming a group of children.

All that aside, this letter is H-Y-P-E-R-B-O-L-E! Don't blame a single Bush policy that contributed to our recession that was years in the making even before Bush. Lets instead blame Obama's unamed, unspecific policies for us not recovering fast enough. To fix it, lets just return to the policies that broke us in the first place.
Political BS pure and simple, devoid of any factual information.

Some very eloquent remarks have been expressed in response to this letter to the editor.
Bleeding-heart liberals who support abortion as a contraceptive and who place personal rights above morals and conservatives who blame the present administration for the fall that quite naturally had to come after years of incredible economic progress. The absolute fact that recovery from this dismal economy has not just been slow but is at a stand-still only proves that the leadership of this country is in the wrong hands. Obama patting himself on the back for failed policies or blaming the opposition has done nothing to correct our course. Politically speaking, where did he come from. What had he done. What foreign policy experience did he have. Yeah, moving around while growing up in a Muslim environment qualifies him. Right now, he doesn't eat until after sundown. After Ramadan he can go back to dropping in at Washington hotspots in the middle of the day. What president has travelled more? Had more family vacations at taxpayer expense? And the whole time, many Americans struggling to keep their homes and their jobs. I know things are worse than they were 3 1/2 years ago. I don't anyone to tell me, regardless of the party they represent. How about representing the people instead of a party?

Talk's cheap and that's all that comes from the Republicans anymore. I haven't heard any ideas from Romney/Ryan yet. If you think these candidate are representing people, you are in for a big disappointment, unfortunately you won't find out until it's too late.

This old, tired, worn out nonsense about Obama being a Muslim has been exposed for what it is - mere scare tactics and baloney from these Republicans. The masses who can't or won't think beyond the "hot air" will accept anything. And they LOVE ya for it, they are counting on it.

What's the alternative - thinking or checking for facts? No never, follow like sheep and over the cliff you will go.

Romney and Ryan are repeating the same lies over and over and over. That's the technique and it works (obviously). There has never been a president treated with less respect than Obama - ever. And there is one goal and one goal only for the Republicans, "get the power back" and continue the destruction of the middle class Americans.

They want more, more, more and they will never be satisfied until they rule supreme. We use to be considered a great country (although certainly not perfect) but most people still saw something worth fighting for and even dying for, but now Corporate America and the "power hungry" rich at the top of the heap have changed that.

There are people who still have enough brains to see what's happening and Obama is the only choice now: he will win in November, but we all must put pressure on these elected officials to serve us and put this country back on track. TRUTH is our only hope.

And before you get too carried away with this Muslim focus, maybe you should read up on big daddy Bush's very friendly relationship with Saudia Arabia and the big oil connections that he was able to pass on to his dimwitted son, George W. Bush.

You are so right, Diane, the Bush/Saudi relationship goes back as far a GW's grandfather; however, there is one powerful entity within the U.S. equally frightening: Grover Norquist. New recruits are generally perceived as much more devout.

Excerpts from http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/02/mitt-romney-201202 (This is a VERY interesting read.)

"It was time for another road show, but the days of soliciting prospects for scarce cash in obscure locales were mostly over. This time Romney and his partners headed to Beverly Hills, California. Arriving at the intersection of Rodeo Drive and Wilshire Boulevard, they headed to the office of Michael Milken, the canny and controversial junk-bond king, at his company, Drexel Burnham Lambert. Romney knew Milken was able to find buyers for the high-yield, high-risk bonds that were crucial to the success of many leveraged-buyout deals.

"At the time of Romney’s visit, it was widely known that Drexel and Milken were under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission. But Drexel was still the big player in the junk-bond business, and Romney needed the financing.

"For 15 years, Romney had been in the business of creative destruction and wealth creation. But what about his claims of job creation? Though Bain Capital surely helped expand some companies that had created jobs, the layoffs and closures at other firms would lead Romney’s political opponents to say that he had amassed a fortune in part by putting people out of work. The lucrative deals that made Romney wealthy could exact a cost. Maximizing financial return to investors could mean slashing jobs, closing plants, and moving production overseas. It could also mean clashing with union workers, serving on the board of a company that ran afoul of federal laws, and loading up already struggling companies with debt."


Romney: As governor, I saw the power of fiscal conservatism. The state budget was $3 billion short. Liberals wanted to raise taxes, but I cut government instead. I eliminated and combined duplicate agencies and wasteful programs, and I balanced the budget four years in a row (Miami-Dade Lincoln Day Dinner, March 7, 2007).

FactCheck: Technically, this is true, but it's also misleading. Romney did not raise anything called a tax during his tenure as governor, but he did increase state revenues by raising various types of fees. In 2003, Romney doubled fees for court filings (which include marriage licensing fees), professional registrations and firearm licenses. Romney also quintupled the per gallon delivery fee for gasoline (money that is supposed to be for cleaning up any leaks from underground fuel tanks). All told, the fees raised more than $400 million in their first year. Romney also “closed loopholes” in the corporate tax structure, a move that generated another $150 million in increased revenue. In addition, Romney cut local aid, a program whereby the state supplied revenue to cities and counties. In 2004, Romney cut nearly 5 percent, or about $230 million, from the local aid budget. The Massachusetts Municipal Association, representing the state's cities and towns, said Romney's cut "forced communities statewide to cut services and raise local taxes and fees." The exact amount of the local tax increases hasn't been definitively tallied, but to some extent Romney avoided a state tax increase only by forcing increases at the local level.

"Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter." ~President George W. Bush

He then punched the air while grinning widely, as the rest of those present including Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy looked on in shock. (Jul 2008 G-8 summit in Japan)

One official who witnessed the extraordinary scene said afterwards: "Everyone was very surprised that he was making a joke about America's record on pollution."

You people sure dig up a lot of information about Romney. Looks like he did accomplish something as a politician. Don't see much said about Obama. I reckon he didn't do very much before he became President. Probably to busy hanging out with his commie buddies, figuring out a way to wreck the economy and overthrow our goverment.

"The survey was conducted for C-SPAN, the cable network, among 65 presidential historians and scholars, who ranked the 42 former occupants of the White House on 10 attributes of leadership: public persuasion, crisis leadership, economic management, moral authority, international relations, administrative skills, relations with Congress, "vision/setting an agenda," "pursued equal justice for all," and "performance within the context of his times."

"The worst presidents, according to the survey, were James Buchanan at 42, Andrew Johnson at 41, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren Harding, Millard Fillmore, George W. Bush, John Tyler, Herbert Hoover, and Rutherford B. Hayes.

"Bush received an overall ranking of 36 out of 42 former presidents—in the bottom 10."


"The damage done to the American economy does not make front-page headlines every day, but the repercussions will be felt beyond the lifetime of anyone reading this page.

"I can hear an irritated counterthrust already. The president has not driven the United States into a recession during his almost seven years in office. Unemployment stands at a respectable 4.6 percent. Well, fine. But the other side of the ledger groans with distress: a tax code that has become hideously biased in favor of the rich; a national debt that will probably have grown 70 percent by the time this president leaves Washington; a swelling cascade of mortgage defaults; a record near-$850 billion trade deficit; oil prices that are higher than they have ever been; and a dollar so weak that for an American to buy a cup of coffee in London or Paris—or even the Yukon—becomes a venture in high finance.

"And it gets worse.

The administration’s basic contempt for global institutions was underscored in 2005 when it named Paul Wolfowitz, the former deputy secretary of defense and a chief architect of the Iraq war, as president of the World Bank. Widely distrusted from the outset, and soon caught up in personal controversy, Wolfowitz became an international embarrassment and was forced to resign his position after less than two years on the job.

"When the problems became apparent, global financial markets faced real tremors: it was discovered that billions in bad mortgages were hidden in portfolios in Europe, China, and Australia, and even in star American investment banks such as Goldman Sachs and Bear Stearns. Indonesia and other developing countries—innocent bystanders, really—suffered as global risk premiums soared, and investors pulled money out of these emerging markets, looking for safer havens. It will take years to sort out this mess.

"Whoever moves into the White House in January 2009 will face an unenviable set of economic circumstances. Extricating the country from Iraq will be the bloodier task, but putting America’s economic house in order will be wrenching and take years."



President Obama Began Processes to Improve Science, Technology and Health Care

· Created a Presidential Memorandum to restore scientific integrity in government decision-making.

· Opened up process for fast-tracking patent approval for green energy projects.

· Eliminated Bush-era restrictions on embryonic stem cell research, and provided increased federal support for biomedical and stem cell research.

· Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, committed more federal funding, about $18 billion, to support non-defense science and research labs.

· Signed Democratic-sponsored Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first comprehensive attempt to improve the lives of Americans living with paralysis.

· Expanded the Nurse-Family Partnership program, which provides home visits by trained registered nurses to low-income expectant mothers and their families, to cover more first-time mothers.

· Obama EPA reversed research ethics standards, which allowed humans to be used as "guinea pigs" in tests of the effects of chemicals, to comply with numerous codes of medical ethics.
· 131. Conducted a cyberspace policy review.

· Provided financial support for private sector space programs.

· Oversaw enhanced earth mapping, to provide valuable data for agricultural, educational, scientific, and government use.

· Along with Democrats in Congress, ushered through and signed a bill authorizing FDA to regulate tobacco. As a result, the FDA has Ordered Tobacco Companies to Disclose Cigarette Ingredients and banned sale of cigarettes falsely labeled as “light.”

· Through American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, provided $500 million for Health Professions Training Programs.

· Increased funding for community-based prevention programs.

· Oversaw a 50% decrease in cost of prescription drugs for seniors.

· Eliminated the Bush-era practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug companies on price.

· Two weeks after taking office, signed Democratic-sponsored Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which increased the number of children covered by health insurance by 4 million.

· Urged Congress to investigate Anthem Blue Cross for raising premiums 39% without explanation. Democratic Rep. Waxman responded by launching a probe, and Anthem Blue Cross put increase on hold for two months.

· Ushered through and signed Affordable Care Act, which expanded health insurance coverage to at least 30 million more people, ended many common insurance company practices that are often detrimental to those with coverage. He also established healthcare.gov, so that taxpayers could keep up with developments.

· Through ACA, allowed children to be covered under their parents’ policy until they turned 26.

· Through the ACA, provided tax breaks to allow 3.5 million small businesses to provide health insurance to their employees, and 29 million people will receive tax breaks to help them afford health insurance.

· Through the ACA, expanded Medicaid to those making up to 133% of the federal poverty level.

· Through the ACA, health insurance companies now have to disclose how much of your premium actually goes to pay for patient care.

· Provisions in the ACA have already resulted in Medicare costs actually declining slightly this fiscal year, for the first time in many years, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The increase in 2011 was 4%, which is very low compared to the average 12% annual inflation rate during previous 40 years.


'Red State Socialism' graphic says GOP-leaning states get lion's share of federal dollars.
The chart suggests that Republicans are hypocritical for bashing the federal government and federal spending, when Republican-leaning states are reaping the lion’s share of federal dollars....States that send more money to the federal government than they receive in federal spending are on the left, and they are primarily blue (or Democratic) states. The table on the right shows states that receive more in federal spending than they contribute in taxes. This table is predominantly red (or Republican). The graphic says: "Of the 32 states which receive more than they contribute, 27 states (84%) are REPUBLICAN. Of the 18 states which contribute more than they receive, 14 states (78%) are DEMOCRATIC."
The above info is in http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/26/blog-posting/red-state-socialism-graphic-says-gop-leaning-state/ ; DOI, the chart uses 2005 data that was published in 2007.
Politifact ruling
The graphic’s data uses data from the 2004 election rather than 2008, and the figures on taxes and spending date back to 2005. There are fewer states that would be labeled Republican based on the 2008 election, and there’s a strong likelihood that tax and spending data would have changed as well. Because of this likelihood, we downgrade the accuracy of this generally accurate chart to Mostly True.

Here is a guy who writes a letter bemoaning spending and ignoring the reason it came about in the first place. It was because Bush went to sleep at the switch, allowed excesses and took us to the brink of a Depression. Connect the dots Leroy.

Oh, Ronbo44, Mr, Donald claims that today's economic suffering is not Bush's fault. Today on 'This Week' a Republican mouthpiece said that Obama cannot take the credit for the demise of Bin Laden, stating "that was the result of policies put in place before he took office."

Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. ~ Mark Twain

If it were not for the brainpower of Karl Rove and Paul Wolfowitz, George W. Bush could never have become President. Pound for pound of brainpower, these two can blow most liberals out of the water. Over and over again, Bush proved he had no brains worthy of mentioning. Absent Karl Rove, Bush was forever doomed to a lifetime of underachievement. Bush was a Karl Rove sock puppet.

Bush once assured an audience of rich people that 'not over my dead body will they raise your taxes.' This amazing mangling of an easy cliché could only invite the question: well, then, Mr. President, over whose cadaver will those taxes be increased? As it happened, that cadaver was the middle class.

Reconciliation was used to push through both of the Bush tax cuts at a budget cost of $1.8 trillion, twice the bill for health reform. To put the breathtaking scope of this irresponsibility in perspective, the Bush administration's swing from surpluses to deficits added more debt in its eight years than all the previous administrations in the history of our republic combined.

The day the Bush administration took over from President Bill Clinton in 2001, America enjoyed a $236 billion budget surplus -- with a projected 10-year surplus of $5.6 trillion. When the Bush administration left office, it handed President Obama a $1.3 trillion deficit -- and projected shortfalls of $8 trillion for the next decade. During eight years in office, the Bush administration passed two major tax cuts skewed to the wealthiest Americans, enacted a costly Medicare prescription-drug benefit and waged two wars, without paying for any of it.

Tea partiers hate the G.O.P. establishment and its Wall Street allies, starting with the Bushies who created TARP, almost as much as they do Obama and his Wall Street pals. When Steele and Palin pay lip service to the movement, they are happy to glom on to its anti-tax, anti-Obama, anti-government, anti-big-bank vitriol. But they don’t call for any actual action against the bailed-out perpetrators of the financial crisis. They’d never ask for investments to put ordinary Americans back to work. They have no policies to forestall foreclosures or protect health insurance for the tea partiers who’ve been shafted by hard times. Their only economic principle beside tax cuts is vilification of the stimulus that did save countless jobs for firefighters, police officers and teachers at the state and local level.

The Democrats’ efforts to counter the deprivation and bitterness spawned by the Great Recession are indeed timid and imperfect. The right has a point when it says that the Senate health care votes of Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana were bought with pork. But at least their constituents can share the pig out. Hustlers like Steele and Palin take the money and run. All their followers get in exchange is a lousy tea party T-shirt. Or a ghostwritten self-promotional book. Or a tepid racial sideshow far beneath the incendiary standards of the party whose history from Strom to “macaca” has driven away nearly every black American except Steele for the past 40 years.

Bush once claimed to have been an alcoholic. Bush, if anything, followed the pattern of many Christian moralizers by overstating how bad he was, and how close to the Devil's claws he ventured. Bush admitted to one DUI, one face-off with his father (the famous mano a mano episode), and a few confrontations with the lady of the house. You call that serious drinking?

In our American society, anybody can be president. And this particular anybody, taking the form of George W. Bush, happened to match an hour in which it is precisely the ordinary people of the country who behaved with distinction.

Congressional Republicans have concluded that screaming foul about the banking bailout and blocking financial reform is a clever strategy for the fall elections. This approach ignores some pretty basic history:
· that the banks imploded while Republicans held Congress and the White House;
· that President George W. Bush started the rescue;
· that many Republicans voted for the bailouts;
· and that they stabilized a financial system that was perilously close to collapse.

More important, it’s a distraction from the very real reasons the nation needs to tighten the rules governing finance. Big banks insisted there was nothing wrong with selling mortgage-backed products while placing bets against them.

Big banks called it “risk management.” Most people call it stacking the deck.

As it happens, the Constitution says nothing about opinion polls trumping the right and duty of elected officials to make decisions based on what they perceive as the merits. All of this goes far beyond politics as usual. Democrats had a lot of harsh things to say about former President George W. Bush — but you’ll search in vain for anything comparably menacing, anything that even hinted at an appeal to violence, from members of Congress, let alone senior party officials. Bush and Cheney were the public ringleaders spreading the lies and threats of mushroom clouds appearing over American cities.

Studies have shown that people tend to seek out information that is consistent with their views; think of liberal fans of MSNBC and conservative devotees of Fox News. Liberals and conservatives also tend to process the information that they receive with a bias toward their pre-existing opinions, accepting claims that are consistent with their point of view and rejecting those that are not. As a result, information that contradicts their prior attitudes or beliefs is often disregarded, especially if those beliefs are strongly held.

Journalistic fact-checking often fails to reduce misperceptions among ideological or partisan voters. In some cases corrections can even make misperceptions worse. For example, it was found that the proportion of conservatives who believed that President George W. Bush’s tax cuts actually increased federal revenue grew from 36 percent to 67 percent when they were provided with evidence against this claim.

People seem to argue so vehemently against the corrective information that they end up strengthening the misperception in their own minds. In the end, access to health care may increase, but the plague of misinformation won’t be cured any time soon.

This new eruption of misinformation and rancor vividly reminds Americans why they couldn’t wait for Bush and Cheney to leave Washington.

It was Bush defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, who lost bin Laden in Tora Bora, not the Obama Justice Department appointees vilified by Keep America Safe.

It was Bush and Cheney, with the aid of Rove’s propaganda campaign, who promoted sketchy and often suspect intelligence about Saddam’s imminent “mushroom clouds. It is essential we remember exactly which American politicians empowered Iran, Al Qaeda and the Taliban from 2001 to 2008, and why those whose ideological zealotry and boneheaded decisions have made America less safe to this day


To the likes of the Tea Party zealots such as commentator ‘TeaTime', I say you didn't have the answers when Bush was getting us into this mess. Where do you get the arrogance to now imply you have the answer that America needs more of the same Romney ‘cut taxes for the rich’ stupidity and the supporting GOP ideology that created today’s depression?

Right back at you Min Gent. This political system is seriously broken. If I was from Mars (and you will never know) and I read all the comments on NVD connected with this election, do you really think I could reach an unbiased view of the two parties? Ant no way....Not even a person on this planet could.

A well thought out, literate, and to the point posting gets responded to by drivel. It explains a lot.

I would like for ONE, just ONE person from the right, to write a letter or even comment/discuss why they believe Romney is a better option in a factual manner. That's all. It should not be such a problem to explain how trickle down will work. It should not be such a problem to explain how taxing the average american a higher rate than than the more financially better off will solve America's problems.

But no, all you see is lie after lie after lie about Obama. Poor Tea, Obama killed his dog you know, he even wrote a song about it. You have to be from Mars to believe the spew.

That is why we are only crawling forward, because instead of looking at reality, some would rather live on Mars.

AND Bush did take more vacay than Obama btw, yet another strawman to attack. Its Googable as usual. But facts matter not when you are on the right it appears.

Nice post! Especially about the the folks with preconcieved notions. That is part of the reason I avoid politics most of the time. I am a "get to the bottom of it type" and you can't do that with people who's minds are made up and don't know it. I also do think it is a hoot Jane that the hardcore righties think Bush is at minimal responsibilty for anything not good now but give all the credit of killing Bin Laden to Bush. Just like it has been said earlier, it would not have been Bush strategy if it did carry over to the present administration anyway, it would have been someone elses much more intelligent than him.

Min Gent, Thank you for your post. My husband, one of the most intelligent men I have ever met, does not read these threads; however, I knew he would appreciate your entry so I copied it and forwarded it to him. He was very impressed with how well you articulated the situation. Look forward to reading more from you.

Katybug, can you show me where the tax rate is documented and what percent more Romney is going to charge the average American than the Financially well off?

The notion that that one is tired of hearing about people pointing the finger of culpability at the G W Bush administration for what it's 8-year reign has brought upon this country is dishonest, and not admitting Bush's vast contribution to our current sorry state is just plain idiocy.

TeaTime, talk is cheap and promises are made to be elected. Why don't you demand Romney release his tax records? What's he hiding? I hope you will watch the debates and THINK beyond the outrageous lies. Just try watching with an open mind. . .

And yes, I agree with Katybug why isn't any so-called conservative voter added anything to these discussions? Just throwing out nonsense like "commie" only shows your ignorance, but perhaps that's the best you've got. That's typical Sarah Palen talk, as she works frantically to collect her millions before her moment in the limelight is totally gone.

As I've said before, when the "ship of fools" goes down, the rats will jump on their private yacht while we, the average American, drown in a sea of misery and despair.

Some of us are trying to reach people who can't/won't take the time to consider the FACTS. We are all Americans and most of us want to see the middle class restored. Many of us feel children should have a "chance" to succeed and if some people need a little help along the way - it should be there.

Personally I have a very hard time understanding how anyone can enjoy vast wealth when so many suffer. A callous indifference is not acceptable: live and let live (as long as you are not harming another) and give the citizens of this country as chance of improving their lives: that use to be called, "The American Dream".

Allow me to make a CORRECTION here: I meant to say, Sarah Palin (w/ an i), not that she's worthy of much more.

Absolutely, beckrose, as the Vanityfair article written by Joseph E. Stiglitz* (an American economist, professor at Columbia University, Awards: Nobel Prize in Economics, John Bates Clark Medal, H. C. Recktenwald Prize in Economics) stated:

2007 - (Article posted previously)
When we look back someday at the catastrophe that was the Bush administration, we will think of many things: the tragedy of the Iraq war, the shame of Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib, the erosion of civil liberties. The damage done to the American economy does not make front-page headlines every day, but the repercussions will be felt beyond the lifetime of anyone reading this page.

REPEAT "but the repercussions will be felt beyond the lifetime of anyone reading this page."

2009 - http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901-2

No. 1: Firing the Chairman
In 1987 the Reagan administration decided to remove Paul Volcker as chairman of the Federal Reserve Board and appoint Alan Greenspan in his place. Volcker had done what central bankers are supposed to do. On his watch, inflation had been brought down from more than 11 percent to under 4 percent. In the world of central banking, that should have earned him a grade of A+++ and assured his re-appointment. But Volcker also understood that financial markets need to be regulated. Reagan wanted someone who did not believe any such thing, and he found him in a devotee of the objectivist philosopher and free-market zealot Ayn Rand. ("The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," ~Paul Ryan)

No. 2: Tearing Down the Walls
The deregulation philosophy would pay unwelcome dividends for years to come. In November 1999, Congress repealed the Glass-Steagall Act—the culmination of a $300 million lobbying effort by the banking and financial-services industries, and spearheaded in Congress by Senator Phil Gramm. Glass-Steagall had long separated commercial banks (which lend money) and investment banks (which organize the sale of bonds and equities); it had been enacted in the aftermath of the Great Depression and was meant to curb the excesses of that era, including grave conflicts of interest.

No. 3: Applying the Leeches
Then along came the Bush tax cuts, enacted first on June 7, 2001, with a follow-on installment two years later. The president and his advisers seemed to believe that tax cuts, especially for upper-income Americans and corporations, were a cure-all for any economic disease—the modern-day equivalent of leeches. The tax cuts played a pivotal role in shaping the background conditions of the current crisis. Because they did very little to stimulate the economy, real stimulation was left to the Fed, which took up the task with unprecedented low-interest rates and liquidity. The war in Iraq made matters worse, because it led to soaring oil prices. With America so dependent on oil imports, we had to spend several hundred billion more to purchase oil—money that otherwise would have been spent on American goods. Normally this would have led to an economic slowdown, as it had in the 1970s. But the Fed met the challenge in the most myopic way imaginable. The flood of liquidity made money readily available in mortgage markets, even to those who would normally not be able to borrow. And, yes, this succeeded in forestalling an economic downturn; America’s household saving rate plummeted to zero. But it should have been clear that we were living on borrowed money and borrowed time....The cut in the tax rate on capital gains contributed to the crisis in another way. It was a decision that turned on values: those who speculated (read: gambled) and won were taxed more lightly than wage earners who simply worked hard.

No. 4: Faking the Numbers
Meanwhile, on July 30, 2002, in the wake of a series of major scandals—notably the collapse of WorldCom and Enron—Congress passed the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. The scandals had involved every major American accounting firm, most of our banks, and some of our premier companies, and made it clear that we had serious problems with our accounting system....The incentive structure of the rating agencies also proved perverse. Agencies such as Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s are paid by the very people they are supposed to grade...high ratings facilitated a rush of money into the region, and then a sudden reversal in the ratings brought devastation.

No. 5: Letting It Bleed

The final turning point came with the passage of a bailout package on October 3, 2008—that is, with the administration’s response to the crisis itself. We will be feeling the consequences for years to come.

The truth is most of the individual mistakes boil down to just one: a belief that markets are self-adjusting and that the role of government should be minimal. Looking back at that belief during hearings this fall on Capitol Hill, Alan Greenspan said out loud, “I have found a flaw.” Congressman Henry Waxman pushed him, responding, “In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right; it was not working.” “Absolutely, precisely,” Greenspan said. The embrace by America—and much of the rest of the world—of this flawed economic philosophy made it inevitable that we would eventually arrive at the place we are today.

2012 - http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/01/stiglitz-depression-201201

*The Bush and Obama administrations justified a bailout on the grounds that only if the banks were handed money without limit—and without conditions—could the economy recover....The banks got their bailout. Some of the money went to bonuses. Little of it went to lending. And the economy didn't really recover—output is barely greater than it was before the crisis, and the job situation is bleak. The diagnosis of our condition and the prescription that followed from it were incorrect. First, it was wrong to think that the bankers would mend their ways....We were told, in effect: “Don’t put conditions on the banks to require them to restructure the mortgages or to behave more honestly in their foreclosures. Don’t force them to use the money to lend. Such conditions will upset our delicate markets.” In the end, bank managers looked out for themselves and did what they are accustomed to doing.*


Do you really want to know why most conservatives do not contribute to this forum Diana. They already know who is the right person to run the country. On the other hand, the reason I am here is to inject the medicine to cure your liberal virus. Please hold still? You might feel a little pinch.

TeaTime, I feel "no pinch" but rather sympathy for your inability to express yourself. Ignorance is bliss, they say, but VERY DANGEROUS: you could be the poster child. Come back with some FACTS (if you can find some) and we will humor you by reading them. :]

Dang, I'm good with a needle Diana. You didn't even feel a thing. The bad feelings you have toward me is normal and you may say things you don't really mean. I understand, it's the medicine doing it's job. Fortunately, I can see some results already. You are asking for facts. This is one of the symptoms that liberals have a hard time keeping down. Take this in small doses until you can handle it. I may not be able to give you a full dose of facts at this time, however, a specialist may be recommended for that in the future.
Dr.TeaTime at you service. No charge.

Katybug, You ask for my input. I'm still waiting for an answer? It's the tax question I ask if you don't remember.

Sorry Tea, life does happen you know. I said..

"I would like for ONE, just ONE person from the right, to write a letter or even comment/discuss why they believe Romney is a better option in a factual manner. That's all. It should not be such a problem to explain how trickle down will work. It should not be such a problem to explain how taxing the average american a higher rate than than the more financially better off will solve America's problems."

And you respond asking me what percent more Romney wants to charge the average american....

Which isn't even remotely an actual response, as per your usual tone. So here is my response to you sir, its all online. Its all been in the news the last couple weeks. If one is capable of using the internet at all, its all there. The report on Romney's tax plan, Ryan's even worse plan, the one years rates Romney paid, the higher rate all 3 of the other candidates paid on less income etc. etc. etc. Heck, alot of it is probably in past commentary here.

So do your own homework :) My original request stands.

katybug, Simplistic minds respond in simplistic rhetoric.

Allow me to improve on what I said katybug.

Feeble minds respond with feeble rhetoric.

Tea~ Shouldn't you TP folk be circling the wagons trying to figure out how to save your man Akin after his commentary? I'm even getting emails from the right to sign petitions telling him to bow out.

Wait, I know...Obama used government mind control techniques to force Akin to say things he really didn't mean right? I mean all conspiracy's link back to Obama. I bet Obama even convinced Mitt's boy wonder Ryan to co-sponsor those bills with Akin making it illegal to use birth control.

Personally, as a woman, I find the whole situation just beautiful in the sense we (women) already knew how just plain "bat-chit crazy" some on the right are regarding women's rights and equality, Akin just put a red seal on it. You know what they say about Hades hath no fury as a woman scorned...


You couldn't have said it any better Ronbo44. These liberals are always spouting nonsense from their well meaning minds. Too bad. I am doing all I can do to help them. I am making a little progress with Diana after her last office visit. She said we shall win in November. Very good, we will.

Katydid, don't read too much into that Akin thing. You probably won't hear anymore about it after this week.

Yes, I chose my avatar, "I See Dumb People", with folks like tea time in mind.

Thank you ‘tea time’ for once again proving you finished in the bottom half of your class. Your entire argument rebuttal repertoire seems to consists of incomplete thoughts, muddled dream-state fantasies, and assorted Tea Party bumper sticker slogans promoting the Bush Legacy and championing Romney’s Fairy Dust ideas as the answers to our problems -- always good for a few chuckles and guffaws, not to mention easily discredited. Makes me wonder how folks like the Tea Partiers manage to get through life being such chumps so easily manipulated by the GOP. Say, could I get you to write me a generous check payable to my retirement fund? Thanks, I knew I could count on you to help me out.

I apologize these Lefties keep on using so many multi-syllable words while writing such lengthy, fact-filled essays that leave tea time pounding salt and making motorboat noises with his lips.

Tea time, to someone with your erudite background, your worldly experiences, and your level of intelligence, these big words must be indistinguishable from Egyptian hieroglyphics. Somehow I am not surprised you do not understand a single word written about your comprehension shortcomings. It must be the ‘English as a second language’ barrier. We sure do miss you down at speech class.

"You can't fix stupid". -- Ron White


News sources say that Akin has until 5:00PM Tuesday (tomorrow) to drop out. I think he should stay the course. (Does that sound familiar?)

Jane & Rolf,

An experiment here...

One question.

If a bat and a ball, cost $1.10 total, and the bat is $1.00 more than the ball, how much does the ball cost?

Please respond!

Ronbo you are welcome to be involved as well.




Do you think Obama would have got that? If you you had to watch Obama try to figure that out, do you think you possibly would have been uncomfortably rooting for him?

I AM certain that Obama is much, much smarter than both you and I.

Numbers are FACTs; now you want to discuss opinions?

Even if he had trouble getting it, it would still be better than Mitt telling me he should only pay .75 to my 1.10 because he has 100.00 to my 5.00 and that somehow, some magical way its going to make life better.

Even though my input wasn't asked for ;)

I think you are selling yourself short! Why would you think Obama was more intelligent than yourself? I have not seen much too deep. I have seen more from you in 6 months than I have seen from Obama in 3 yrs. And look at the sideshow he has hired at to flank him. Would you have hired those idiots, no, you would have wondered why Axelrod, Geithner and the rest had got that high up with humans. I do wish I would have left that question I posed, unasked, until you went to bed. I bet your lefty friends would have had trouble. ALL of the far left had no success with that one at the Hotel earlier. Not to say they were the best!

What numbers give him so much credence? What numbers are facts?

I always value your political opinion, no matter if we agree or not. I think now maybe I should have picked on somebody besides Jane to ask a little brainteaser. My little experiment that worked with people who had little short glasses sitting in front of them, of a light brown color, didn't turn out the same here.

Thanks, Katybug.

Good night, Hotel....we'll always have tomorrow!

ROFLMAO, I'm sorry I am wasting your mind.

Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $294.21 Million Assets
$294.21 Million Liabilities $0.00 Million Change 298.9%

When McCaul first appeared on Roll Call’s annual survey of the 50 Richest Members of Congress in 2005, he was a wealthy guy, reporting a minimum net worth of about $12* million.


* It pays to marry well. McCaul's sudden jump is mostly the result of money given his wife by her father (so the story goes). McCaul's wife Linda is the daughter of Clear Channel Communications Chairman Lowry Mays and sister of Clear Channel CEO Mark Mays.

Clear Channel Communications, Inc. is an American mass media company headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. Founded in 1972 by Lowry Mays and Red McCombs, the company was taken private by BAIN CAPITAL, LLC and Thomas H. Lee Partners in a leveraged buyout in 2008; as a result, the company now operates as a wholly owned subsidiary of CC Media
Holdings, Inc. Clear Channel talk stations include the GLENN BECK Program -- getting his talk show start at Clear Channel owned WFLA (AM) in Tampa, The RUSH LIMBAUGH Show, The SEAN HANNITY Show, America Now with Andy Dean and Coast to Coast AMwith George Noory, all of which are affiliated with Premiere Radio Networks in some fashion. The Savage Nation (which was until September 2009 flagshipped at Clear Channel's KNEW-910), The Mark Levin Show and The Dave Ramsey Show are non-Premiere shows who air on many (if not most) Clear Channel stations. Limbaugh is almost universally carried on Clear Channel stations in markets where the company has a news talk station (there were some exceptions, although the last was eliminated in late 2011). New Clear Channel talk radio stations have typically been using the branding "Rush Radio," while most older ones use a more generic "News Radio" or "News Talk." Almost all of Clear Channel's primary talk stations are affiliated with FOX NEWS (sic) Radio for national news, part of a multi-year deal between Clear Channel and Fox. They also have a USO contract through which Rush spins his venom. (wikipedia)

Why would I want to join in a discussion with folks who can only contribute "I'm going to innoculate you against your liberal virus" or "I'm wasting your mind'? I have set higher standards for myself. I don't like the Adkins diet so I won't partake. :)

Change atkins to Akins above. Don't want to come off ignorant. :)

For you guys who try to reason with people who display no ability to reason, may I offer this wise advice...

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life:
A fight is going on inside me, he said to the boy. It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego. The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too.
The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather,Which wolf will win?
The old Cherokee simply replied, The one you feed.
-American Indian Proverb

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