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Letter to the Editor: Republicans have made a mess of this nation


On foreign policy, Mitt Romney has so far relied on many of George W. Bush's foreign policy advisers. When Romney made the trip abroad, he made a fool of himself.

President Obama, on the other hand, has had military success against Al Queda and his broader move to the center on overseas matters since 2009.

In January 2009, the Republicans held their own retreat at the Library of Congress. Mitch McConnell said, "We need to stick together as a team." If Obama is for it, we are against it. All he cared about was that Obama could never have a clean victory. So was born the "Party of No!"

The Obama plan: $300 billion worth of tax cuts, unemployment benefits, infrastructure, research, top education reforms, and much more, but the Republicans never waivered, always no!

They want to get rid of Obama so they can get back in power at the cost of everyone in this country. I think what they have done is the next thing to treason.

The Republicans are trying to blame the mess this country is in on Obama, but they made the mess themselves.

Romney has no idea what my needs are; he grew up in a billion-dollar household.

He wants to replace the current Medicare system with a premium support program that gives seniors a fixed amount to purchase private insurance; his running mate wants to voucherize Medicare.

Ryan trashed Obama's stimulus as a "wasteful spending spree" while seeking stimulus dollars for his district.

Romney's plan would benefit high earners while slightly increasing on low and middle class families.

On foreign policy, Romney and Ryan have the least overseas experience of any ticket since Thomas Dewey and Earl Warren in 1948.

Here we go again, there is very little difference in Bush's plan and Romney's plan. I will vote for Obama in November.

June Cullers, Front Royal


Yes, indeed. As President Clinton reminded us last night, the Republicans handed President Obama the biggest mess in the history of this nation, and now they want to kick him out because he hasn't cleaned it up fast enough. In spite of the hemorrhaging of jobs when President Obama took over we are now adding jobs and doing it in spite of the Republicans who refuse to help with a jobs bill to get our infrastructure back in shape. In fact the President has added millions of jobs while the congressional Republicans have added ZERO, as President Clinton so well said last evening.

Thank you, Ms Cullers.

"And plenty of other Clinton statistics checked out as accurate. For example, he said that since 1961, when John F. Kennedy took office, 42 million private-sector jobs had been added while Democrats held the White House, compared with 24 million while Republicans were in office. And that’s exactly what Bloomberg News reported in a May 8 story.

"He also accused Republicans of blocking 1 million potential new jobs, but that checked out, too:

"Two independent economists — Mark Zandi of Moody’s Analytics and Joel Prakken of Macroeconomics Advisers — had estimated that Obama’s proposed American Jobs Act would add more than 1 million jobs. Zandi claimed it would add 1.9 million jobs; Prakken 1.3 million. Senate Republicans blocked the $447 billion measure, and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell denounced it as “a charade that’s meant to give Democrats a political edge” in 2012." (Factcheck.com)

Good letter, Ms. Cullers, and you have brought out excellent points. To just one of your points: It is breathtaking to realize that back in January 2009 when President Obama was inaugurated, the Congressional Republican leaders met and made plans to oppose President Obama on every economic proposal (thereby harming our economy and most Americans) so they could regain power in four years. As you said, that was the birth of "the party of NO".

In January of 2009, in this country our economy was experiencing it's worst recession in decades---not since the Great Depression---with jobs and wealth falling at a rapid pace and families being driven more quickly into default, foreclosure, and bankruptcy. And the Republicans were MORE concerned about their own power than helping the president get us all away from the economic cliff we were at the edge of? Now, that is what I call unAmerican.

And this, from the party (Republican) that claim they are more patriotic than the rest of us. The party (Republican) who accused us who dared question the Iraq war during the Bush administration as being unAmerican and unpatriotic . The same party (Republican) who even critized President Obama when he first took office for not wearing a flag pin,for heaven's sake!

June, read your comments, and would totally disagree with you. While I am not registered Democrate nor Republican, I fear the Democrats
have gone clear off the path, at least most of them. They are taking American people down the wrong path. So sad and I might add, dangerous, to see this country so divided. This administration has caused way too much one class against another class, dividing the even further, and yes, too much hate. Though I voted for Obama in 08, I sincerely cannot do so this time around. He has totally disappointed me. I wish we had some good pro-Americans running for office, but the two party system does not help this situation.
Whoever is elected, I hope and pray they will try to bring this country together, and stand for solid American beliefs and practices. God help us.

SkylineRam, read the post by song98 just above yours.

Not only do I not believe that Bark Obama is a good American, I don't believe he is an American at all. He is a shady, smooth-talking politician (thanks in no small part to teleprompters) who came out of nowhere to be elected by a citizenry enamored with what he represented. What he has continued to mis-represent is himself. He was overheard whispering to Putin that after he is re-elected he will have more flexibility. Under him, I believe the United States will 'go down' in history. I've heard more excuses for why he hasn't been able to turn the economy around than I can remember. The democrats have given us Jimmy Carter and 20% mortgage interest, Bill Clinton and sex in the oral office. They attempted to pass Michael Dukakis and John Kerry off on us. Kerry was absolutely despised by real swiftboat crewmen. I can't stand to hear the halting delivery of Obama's oratory or his cocky strut. I truly believe he will show the real Barack Obama and his intentions if re-elected and it will not be good for America.

caveman5974, It is so sad that you will not challenge anyone and you accept what you hear as truth. There are so many sources that disprove many of your statements; e.g., factcheck.com, politiFact.com, snopes.com, etc.

SkylineRam, I challenge you to research those statements that are of concern to you. You may be surprised to learn that you are mistaken.

"Bill Clinton and sex in the oral office"

Totally agree that this is a true character flaw but this is not your business and it is not my business...if HIS WIFE can live with him after what he has done, then she is the only one who needs to deal with this issue.

Do you know that our first president had an out-of-marriage "love interest"? Her name was Sally Fairfax,

SkylineRam, I invite you to read this article and would love to know your personal opinion of it.


The extreme elements in our society latch on to the flimsiest of evidence and will never let a single fact get in the way of their thinking. They believe there's a Sasquatch, The moon landing was a hoak, and an alien is kept in Area 51. So it doesn't surprise me they would similiary believe in Myth Romney.

Caveman, yes that's a good name for you. While I agree none of these politicians will "walk on water", we take the best offer we can find or in the case of this national election the better choice.

Bill Clinton could have gone down in history as one of the best presidents. His White House playtime certainly helped elect that moron Bush with their "family value" baloney. As time goes by, history will look at their accomplishments and failures.

The disaster named George W. Bush is the reason so many people went a little nuts over Obama. Just to hear a president speak a coherent sentence made us giddy! There was a world-wide collective relief to see that Bush administration go; unfortunately we are all still paying for these warmongers.

People will believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts. If you actually listened to the Republican Convention there was only mean-spirited, negative comments and most of all LIES. There was no substance.

I have heard no plans for rebuilding this nation and this party is counting on people like you who never bother to know truth from lies. There is an agenda, of course, an unspoken little wink and nod: the FAT CATS are licking their chops. You'll find out what's in store for you and other Americans if they can snatch the power.

Why People Believe Conspiracy Theories

Why people who believe in one conspiracy are prone to believe others


Article by Michael Shermer, Skeptic Magizine

On Wednesday, May 16,I spent several hours on a hot bus in a neon desert called Las Vegas with a merry band of British conspiracists during their journey around the Southwest in search of UFOs, aliens, Area 51 and government cover-ups, all for a BBC documentary. One woman regaled me with a tale about orange balls of energy hovering around her car on Interstate 405 in California, which were subsequently chased away by black ops helicopters. A man challenged me to explain the source of a green laser beam that followed him around the English countryside one evening.

Conspiracies are a perennial favorite for television producers because there is always a receptive audience. A recent Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary that I participated in called Conspiracy Rising, for example, featured theories behind the deaths of JFK and Princess Diana, UFOs, Area51 and 9/11, as if there were a common thread running throughout. According to radio host and conspiracy monger Alex Jones, also appearing in the film, "The military-industrial complex killed John F. Kennedy" and "I can prove that there's a private banking cartel setting up a world government because they admit they are" and ''No matter how you look at 9/11 there was no Islamic terrorist connection-the hijackers were clearly U.S. government assets who were set up as patsies like Lee Harvey Oswald."

Such examples, along with others in my years on the conspiracy beat, are emblematic of a trend I have detected that people who believe in one such theory tend to believe in many other equally improbable and often contradictory cabals. This observation has recently been confirmed empirically by University of Kent psychologists Michael 1. Wood, Karen M. Douglas and Robbie M. Sutton in a paper entitled "Dead and Alive: Beliefs in Contradictory Conspiracy Theories," published in the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science this past January. The authors begin by defining a conspiracy theory as "a proposed plot by powerful people or organizations working together in secret to accomplish some (usually sinister) goal" that is "notoriously resistant to falsification ... with new layers of conspiracy being added to rationalize each new piece of disconfirming evidence." Once you believe that "one massive, sinister conspiracy could be successfully executed in near-perfect secrecy, [it] suggests that many such plots are possible." With this cabalistic paradigm in place, conspiracies can become "the default explanation for any given event-a unitary, closed-off worldview in which beliefs come together in a mutually supportive network known as a monological belief system."

This monological belief system explains the significant correlations between different conspiracy theories in the study. For example, "a belief that a rogue cell of MI6 was responsible for Princess Diana's death was correlated with belief in theories that HIV was created in a laboratory ... that the moon landing was a hoax ... and that governments are covering up the existence of aliens." The effect continues even when the conspiracies contradict one another: the more participants believed that Diana faked her own death, the more they believed that she was murdered.

The authors suggest there is a higher-order process at work that they call global coherence that overrules local contradictions: "Someone who believes in a significant number of conspiracy theories would naturally begin to see authorities as fundamentally deceptive, and new conspiracy theories would seem more plausible in light of that belief." Moreover, "conspiracy advocates' distrust of official narratives may be so strong that many alternative theories are simultaneously endorsed in spite of any contradictions between them." Thus, they assert, "the more that participants believe that a person at the center of a death-related conspiracy theory, such as Princess Diana or Osama [bin] Laden, is still alive, the more they also tend to believe that the same person was killed, so long as the alleged manner of death involves deception by officialdom."

As Alex Jones proclaimed in Conspiracy Rising: "No one is safe, do you understand that? Pure evil is running wild everywhere at the highest levels."

On his Infowars.com Web site, Jones headlines his page with "Because There Is a War on for Your Mind."

True enough, which is why science and reason must always prevail over fear and irrationality, and conspiracy mongering traffics in the latter at the expense of the former.

It took approximately 13 years to recover from the Great Depression....from Oct. 1929 until 1942. We have been spared a Great Depression this time around in part by the creation of Social Security and unemployment benefits...those evil entitlement programs that Republicans despise so much and vow to dismantle if elected.

I reiterate...it took 13 years to recover from the Great Depression!!! Some of you cannot fathom why we haven't recovered from this Great Recession in just under 4 years and think that if we had a good enough President, this problem should have been fixed by now! If you would only do a little research and know and understand what you are reading, the choice in Nov. would be clear.

While we still have a long way to go, we have improved. Memories must be pretty bad if you cannot remember when approx. 750,000 jobs were lost per month when the economy first nose dived. Remember the Dow Jones being just above 6000? You cannot suffer a global economic meltdown as we have had and expect a quick fix for the problem. We are seeing slow, but steady improvement, but it will take a while to fully recover from this.

Be informed and vote wisely. A lot is at stake here besides the economy and jobs creation like the Lilly Ledbetter Equal Pay for Equal Work Act, a woman's right to choose her healthcare, and the possible repeal of Affordable Care Act to name a few. You guys better start studying!


I am reminded of an incident I observed while in a local store. A Canadian came into this store with his family and he ordered ice cream cones for his children. The young attendee says to the Canadian, "I love your accent; where are you from?" Canada was his reply. "Oh, where is that?" she asked. Occasionally, when remembering that, I wonder of all the experiences to which that family was exposed while visiting the U.S., wonder which they share the most? Our government REALLY NEEDS to cut all that waste, fraud and abuse, e.g., education, teachers, student loans, etc.

Obama owned the Presidency, the House, and the Senate for his first two years. He passed everything he wanted at least as much as the Democratic Congress would give him...no his recovery hasn't worked because Democrats had the congress for the last two years of Bush and the first two years of obama.
Anything not passed in Obama's first year comes down to Democrats not doing their job. If they believed they were right they should have not cared one iota about bi-partisanship. They should have passed their agenda (which they really did) and then said "na, nana, boo boo" to the Republicans when it worked. ...problem is they knew it wouldn't work and didn't want all the blame for it when it failed...as it has.
So while there really isn't much difference between what Republicans and Democrats DO when they're in power the problems we are in are down to the policies of the democrats in congress. Plus Obama has executive ordered more stuff around congress than Bush...AND it's not working.
Let's be fair...blame everyone, but Obama had everything he needed to get his agenda through, but it was the Democrats that failed to give it to him in its entirety.

Earlier in August, Mitt and Ann Romney professed their love for the store's dress shirts on David Letterman's show, claiming that the candidate not only loves the $18 garments, but irons them himself.


Above is co-founder of Costco.

Kim, See Tstar | September 7, 2012 10:39 AM .

Kim see letter by Waller H. Wilson in todays NVD and posted above.

Its pointless to try to correct Mrs. Bishop. I wouldn't bother.

She is in her own, an attempt to be a local Beck/Limbaugh. Writing to appeal to the ignorant and easily confused, mixing the most feared book of the bible with government conspiracy theories in a "what if world". So either she really is just that stupid to believe her own nonsense, or even worse, she simply hopes to bank on the ignorance of others.

*Of note, I think it was just after Clinton spoke and I was bouncing between CNN and FOX SPEWS for the commentary, and Brit Hume was sitting there saying that under Obama they had 2 years of filibuster proof congress. These liars should be brought up on treason charges for intentionally creating fear and hate towards the government.

If it wasn't so sad, it would almost be funny. I was in Sheetz a while back and the girl behind the counter was having trouble with her register. Apparently the light had gone out and she couldn't see the amount of change to give back. She held up people standing in line while she was frantically yelling for someone to give her a calculator quick! The purchase price was $2.83 and they had given her $3! Sad, but true!

Barry Goldwater (1909–1998) was born in Phoenix, in what was then the incorporated Arizona Territory of the United States. During his presidential campaign in 1964, there was a minor controversy over Goldwater's having been born in Arizona when it was not yet a state.

George Romney (Mitt Romney's father), who ran for the Republican party presidential nomination in 1968, was born in Mexico to U.S. parents. Romney's grandfather had emigrated to Mexico in 1886 with his three wives and children after the U.S. federal government outlawed polygamy. Romney's monogamous parents retained their U.S. citizenship and returned to the United States with him in 1912. Romney never received Mexican citizenship, because the country's nationality laws had been restricted to jus sanguinis statutes due to prevailing politics aimed against American settlers.

John McCain (born 1936), who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and was the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone. McCain never released his birth certificate to the press or independent fact-checking organizations, but did show it to Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs, who wrote "a senior official of the McCain campaign showed me a copy of [McCain's] birth certificate issued by the 'family hospital' in the Coco Solo submarine base". A lawsuit filed by Fred Hollander in 2008 alleged that McCain was actually born in a civilian hospital in Colon City, (cont'd)

Barack Obama (born 1961), 44th president of the United States, was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to a U.S. citizen mother and a British subject father from what was then the Kenya Colony of theUnited Kingdom (which became the independent country of Kenya in 1963). Before and after the 2008 presidential election, arguments were made that he is not a natural-born citizen. On June 12, 2008, the Obama presidential campaign launched a website to counter what it described as smears by his opponents, including conspiracy theories challenging his eligibility.[100] The most prominent issue raised against Obama was the claim made in several lawsuits that he was not actually born in Hawaii. In two other lawsuits, the plaintiffs argued that it was irrelevant whether he was born in Hawaii,[101] but argued instead that he was nevertheless not a natural-born citizen because his citizenship status at birth was governed by the British Nationality Act 1948.[102] Most of the cases have been dismissed because of the plaintiff's lack of standing; however, three courts have given guidance on the question.
A three-member Indiana Court of Appeals stated: "Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are 'natural born Citizens' for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents." Ankeny v. Governor of Indiana (Ind.App., Nov. 12, 2009) 916 N.E.2d 678 at 688[103] Administrative Law Judge Michael Malihi in Georgia decided a group of eligibility challenge cases saying "The Indiana Court rejected the argument that Mr. Obama was ineligible, stating that the children born within the United States are natural born citizens, regardless of the citizenship of their parents. ... This Court finds the decision and analysis of Ankenypersuasive."[104] Federal District Judge John A Gibney, Jr. wrote in his decision in the case of Tisdale v. Obama, "The eligibility requirements to be President of the United States are such that the individual must be a "natural born citizen" of the United States ... It is well settled that those born in the United States are considered natural born citizens. See, e.g. United States v. Ark [sic] ..."[105]

caveman, If you would like to read anymore about these, I pulled the info from


Good post Jane. He's probably busy looking at some cave drawings or shooting a GEICO commercial.

Thanks, Jane, for posting this, although I agree with Ronbo44. Some in the crazy "birther" crowd are just plain stupid and believe whatever they are told and others just hate President Obama so much, they want to believe the birther nonsense others are out there selling for purely political reasons.

song98 then there's the elephant in the room.

In spite of the facts, people tend to believe what they are taught to believe. Making excuses for immoral behavior doesn't mean it is acceptable. Society accepts the moral 'shortcomings' of the man of their choice without regard to a set of moral values. What Hillary accepts is hers to own. Believe it or not (because it's not something you were taught) but my screen name does not mean I am a grunting, knuckle-dragging, club wielding, neanderthal. I don't really care whether others like my opinion or not. I don't NEED validation.
Funny, after the United States entered World War I under a democrat and World War II under a democrat, idiots find fault with a 'warmongering' republican for going after the terriorists. The source of the 911 attacks. I have not voted along strict party lines. I admit I have made mistakes in my life. They're called democrats. I know when I have been better off in my life and I can say without reservation that a republican occupied the White House. I cannot attest to whether republicans or democrats controlled congress during those times, I just KNOW my life was better. It's situational. If Lee Iacocca could bring Chrysler out of near bankruptcy surely a man with Mitt Romney's success in Massachusetts and the private sector can turn this economy around. He did successfully turn the US Olympics from in the red to in the black. What did Obama ever do except vote for every liberal issue that was considered under his very short senatorial 'visit' to congress. The undeniable responsibility of every man and woman elected to represent us in Congress is to do all they can to make any president a success. Differences aside, Americans need and deserve that unselfish representation. Party politics, regardless of party, only serves to muddy the water.

Now is a good time for you to bring that Kazoo out.


Okay, where to begin,... WW1 - Yes, Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat. I suppose its a bad thing to go after the country that was attacking our merchant ships and offering bribes to Mexico to war with us. Mind you, Wilson didn't convince us to go after a completely different country based upon his imaginary weapons so he could prove his brass to Daddy, but that's another story.
WW2- Yes, FDR was again a Democrat. What an evil one he must have been to formally enter the war after not only an attack on our own soil but a Naval base at that.

So lets instead hail Bush who blamed Clinton for 9-11 (which FOIA has provided America with the documentation that Bush's cabinet WAS made aware of the danger of Bin Laden pre- 9-11) who then dragged the United States into TWO separate wars that lasted through his Presidency, only for a Democrat to take office and finally bring the guy down who orchestrated the attacks in a completely different country than where we are at war....yay! Hail Bush! (that just makes sooo much sense)

Mitt Romney did NOT save the Olympics. The US taxpayer DID. 1.5 BILLION dollars of federal funds saved the olympics. I could have "saved" the day with that kind of money. But I wouldn't be standing there afterwards pretending it was all me and I was superwoman neither. (Well I am Super Woman, but that's another story.)

AND THEN....you lay on us "The undeniable responsibility of every man and woman elected to represent us in Congress is to do all they can to make any president a success."

Did you keep a straight face while typing that? I really want to know! Because I 100% agree with that comment, which is why we should be firing with our votes the party that came right out and said their only responsibility was to make the president fail. Who was that? Oh yeah REPUBLICANTS! The party of our way or no way, the party of if we don't win the election, lets start a civil war.

The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.- Mitch McConnell-R

So no, maybe you aren't the he-man woman haters club type of caveman, who knows? But you sir have in fact been living in a cave apparently. Its a good thing you don't need validation because one cant validate what is only in another's imagination.

Katybug, I was going to reply to caveman5974, but I could not add anything to your excellent post! Thank you.

Katybug, You have such clarity. I certainly hope Caveman reads your post and at least thinks about the facts.

Caveman, I never voted along 'party' lines until GWB. Although, in some strange way, I actually feel sorry for this man; he was way over his head in that position. Cheney ran the show and GWB didn't wake up until about the last year or two of his presidency...by then the damage was done! Cheney manipulated the young man with such expertise. Bush 41 was a responsible, competent man and he realized the dangers of overthrowing Saddam; i.e., the destabilization of the region. Saddam, like him or not, kept the lid on peace in that area. Iran would not move on him or neighbors because they feared Saddam's wrath. Now look at what we have done to the area; the Bush 43 legacy is, unfortunately, America's legacy; i.e., the invasion of a sovereign nation; destroying a civilization (many of the professionals--doctors, educators, etc. have left their homeland); since our invasion the Iraqi citizens have to ration water, electricity, etc. THINK, just for a minute, about what it would be like to live there now, never knowing that when you walk to the mall with your child or down the street if a bomb exploding near you or a gun fight might claim your life. Bush 43, Cheney and Rumsfeld are responsible for this monster and the American people will be paying for decades.

It bugged me when I first read it and was going to let it go because in the end its probably pointless as far as Caveman goes, but after stewing a little longer changed my mind.

I try really hard to understand the sheltered perspective some live under lol, I really do. Sometimes though I really believe some people live hiding under a rock with only a radio tuned into AM hate or something of the sort. Because I just cant figure it out.

Katybug, did you serve in VietNam during the Johnson administration? I did.
So the circumstances of why we have ever gone to war are justified strictly by which party is in the White House? While you are trying to convince yourself and others of your mindset let us not forget that the US had intercepted a message regarding Japan's planned attack on Pearl Harbor before it happended and chose to ignore it. An uncle died aboard the USS Arizona.

Vote for Obama and then blame the Republicans because you're no better off four 'more' years from now.
Only an idiot would give Obama credit for what the CIA and our military did. He just happened to be president at the time. He didn't lead the raid. He was never in any danger. The same would be true regardless of which party the president represented. Clinton let bin Laden get away. Not the CIA or our military but his reluctance....... The party of our way or no way is which ever party does not have their man in the White House.
If there is ever another civil war in this country the democrats will have to do a study, appoint a czar of something and give it more thought before committing to it.
If a candidate wins the presidency 51% to 49% I guess 49% of Americans are out of luck. Guess what? 100% of us suffer if the man or the party in power isn't out to make America safer, stronger and more self-sufficient. I make no apology for point of view and I won't support a candidate who apologizes to Muslim countries for how the United States chooses to deal with their extremist actions.

No Caveman I did not, while I respect any military member for their service, it doesn't distract from the fact that Bush's two wars were pointless, probably created more terrorists than it has killed and as Jane mentioned has made us in part responsible for the rise of Iran.

If you want to look at just how far back to track Al Qaeda threat to the US, then I'd go back to the 1990 FBI raid under Bush 1, where they discovered plans to destroy NY skyscrapers.

If Clinton is responsible for not having taken care of it, then so is Bush 1.

You said "So the circumstances of why we have ever gone to war are justified strictly by which party is in the White House?" Um hello!! It was you that put that out there in the first place by the Democrats in office when we went into World Wars statement.

We can argue all day long, but you cant change the fact that one order gave way to the taking down of Bin Laden, and that order didn't come from the man who started the wars, it came from the man left to clean up.

Better off? My family is already better off. 4 years ago his 401k statements were losing money every month, now they are gaining every month. One of our daughters has a condition the insurance WE pay for used to be able to deny her coverage for, no longer. Its a relief to know that if Warren Memorial transport decides to fly her off to Charlottesville ever again, we wont be on the street because of it. As long as the Republicans aren't allowed to set us back, our children's future looks brighter. That is one thing Obama has 100% dead on, if we don't produce a nation of the smartest, most innovative people, we will fall behind. Its not a question. So yes, I'm better off.

REPUBLICANT would be the people who believe their main job as an elected civil servant is to make the President, therefore our country fail. It would be the people going around attacking him for lack of jobs when THEY wont pass the jobs bill that brings an estimated 1-2 million jobs in. Its the people who are promising another tax cut we cant pay for. Its the people setting a platform that says if "I" a mother who had tubal ligation to ensure no more children have an ectopic pregnancy I will be condemned to death to suit someone else's idea of morality, and then also want to take away the programs my family would be forced to turn to once they killed me. Its the people who want to turn my disabled and very soon to be elderly mothers social security over to a bunch of crooks because they can pay them the big "donations" she cant afford to protect herself. Want me to keep going?

AND BTW....IF you have enough brain power to figure out how to comment on NVD, then I'm fairly certain you should be capable of searching out the REPUBLICANT LIE regarding our Presidents supposed apologies, as it has been fact busted many, MANY times over!

What did our former President say about a broken clock twice a day?


Another story elsewhere directed me to the video, but I have to wonder how many Spews viewers noticed the truth told while their commentators keep telling lies?

Katybug, I'm glad you're better off. Not many can say that. I'm sorry your party hasn't done more for others. They had the control and failed to do much besides spend taxpayer money so fast my grandchildren will never be able to pay off the debt. Go ahead, say it started with Bush 1 or 2. One undeniable fact is that it hasn't stopped. Republicans have to block the wild spending of Democrats, otherwise the Democrats raid of Social Security funds that have never been repaid would have wrecked the system sooner than predicted. Can you spend money without regard to where it comes from or how you will pay it back? You're living in a dream world. Do you still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the toothfairy. Democrats pound the upper class like they're beating a drum but job creation and a stronger economy will rely on the continued success of big business. Did you ever stop to think business is why his 401K is looking better? It won't stay that way if Democrats have their way. Thousands upon thousands of businesses have failed or closed their doors because they can't survive for the primary purpose of supporting a business hostile the government.

Um Caveman Obama's healthcare plan cuts the deficit, he has a plan to cut more off of the deficit. Did you watch the conventions? I watched them both. Which candidate is proposing to add more via tax breaks just as G.W. did and can not explain how he intends to pay for it? Nuff said. You are right, you cant spend what you don't have, the CANTS need to stop trying.

I'm only too happy to serve as your whipping boy. It takes the heat off others like Kim Bishop. You attack others as being a self-appointed local Beck/Limbaugh but continue your own verbal barrage. Take a lesson from yourself. You sound like a 2nd Lt. attempting to convince his troops they can defend and indefensible position. If your man wins we will ALL go down in flames.

I refer you chest-pounding Democrats to youtube June 9, 2009 for Obama's apology.

"I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction" - Barack Obama in his book Audacity of Hope.....

I give up, your name truly fits and Mrs. Bishop is EXACTLY as I said.

As Rodney King said "can't we all just get along"?

Katybug, you have done a more than admirable job here and you sure have more patience than I would have had. At a certain point I just give up on people who prefer to have their eyes closed and mind turned off. Caveman and others like him are going to believe what it is that they WANT to believe no matter what proof might be put in front of them. And I am sure it absolutely kills the Conservatives that it was with President Obama, and not Republican George Bush, when bin Laden was finally killed. They don't like---in fact many of them hate---President Obama for, well------you can pick any of a number of reasons and usually it is not for anything that is reasonable or even fair. So, therefore, if the president they do not like has achieved something, they will do everything they can (and even believe it themselves) to deny that he deserves any credit for it. It is like something I read which said "if President Obama found a way to end world hunger, the 'haters' would scream that he was contributing to the over-population of the world-----or else say world hunger just ended on it's own with no help from Obama". In their eyes, no matter what proof might be put in front of them, they will never give Obama/Democrats/Liberals credit for anything at all. That is just how it is.

It is a pretty sure bet that Caveman and others like him, that we all know here in The Valley, are not in that wealthy 1% of the country and although they accuse the Democrats of wanting a "nanny state", these same people like and depend on medicare and social security as do most of us in this country. They can thank Democrats for it, although you and I know they won't. And if Romney/Ryan get to have any say, these programs will have drastic changes and it will not be in our best interest. But, to their own detriment they will continue to defend and vote for Republicans----against their own interests.


I put the above link for anyone out there who IS interested in the TRUTH. This is as regards a comment in which Caveman5974 gives a (supposed) quote from President Obama about "standing with muslims". It is FALSE---never has been said by him nor written by him in any of his books nor anyplace else----NEVER. It took me less than a minute to go to the non-partisan fact-checking site factcheck.org to check this lie out and there are other non-partisan, independent sites such as snopes.com and politifact.com that can be a source of the accuracy of what people are hearing or reading especially at this time before an election.

According to factcheck.org this falsehood had been in one of those e-mails that make the rounds almost always with misleading and down-right false information.

Even if you do not want to see someone elected, why in heaven's name would anyone just accept at face value something that someone says without at least checking it out from an independent, non-partisan source? I just can't understand that.

"let us not forget that the US had intercepted a message regarding Japan's planned attack on Pearl Harbor before it happended and chose to ignore it"

RUMOR ONLY. This is NOT true, Caveman. I have heard that story too. No evidence whatsoever. Give us the proof other than hearsay!

I lived through a coup that ousted a dictator of 20 years...so what!!! Some of my relatives survived the Vietnam war too; but thank for your service.

"Only an idiot would give Obama credit for what the CIA and our military did. He just happened to be president at the time."

I ABSOLUTELY KNOW you are mistaken about the president's role in these events. I worked with some people who were involved in the planning stages of the Iraq invasion. And that was by ORDER of GWB. Nothing of this magnitude goes forward without the President's direct involvement and to think otherwise makes you very naive. Being a foot soldier in Vietnam hardly qualifies you for knowing what transpires within government/military higher ranks.

"I make no apology for point of view and I won't support a candidate who apologizes to Muslim countries for how the United States chooses to deal with their extremist actions."

That is REALLY the sad part about the thought processes of many Americans.

“The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend.” ― Abraham Lincoln

"Society accepts the moral 'shortcomings' of the man of their choice without regard to a set of moral values."

True. Like Newt Gingrich and John McCann.

Of note: There are no youtube videos of Obama apologizing to muslim countries. I found one titled that, and even idiot commentary, but alas no apologies from Obama in the video, another video of Fox Spews commentator asserting that's what Obama "really meant" but alas no apologies. I also found Spews articles using half quotes to try to say they were apologies, usual nonsense.



"Hi, I'm Mitt Romney and I'm running for President. My appeal is straight to the most lazy and ignorant. I won't be dictated by facts, all you need to know is vote for me. I cant tell you how or why I'm better. I cant explain how my math that every economist says is impossible will work, just know this, voting for me gets rid of the black man."

That is of course my own take on the man before anyone gets confused.

Katybug, Your take is probably truer that even you realize.

Personally, I believe that Romney wants the presidency to bring manufacturing and textiles back to the U.S. Now before you doubt me, think about this for a minute...all Mormans are REQUIRED to wear Temple garments both day and night, right?


Then when Romney becomes President and has his Republican congress, he will issue an Executive Order requiring all of us to wear these garments. Can you image the jobs this will create? As a matter of fact, once our taxes have been raised, social security and medicare reduced, most of the older citizens might be able to get a low paying job working in one of his textile factories. And he can also mandate that these garments only be sold in Burlington Coat Factory (owned by Bain Capital) which would help make that business more profitable. Its all good.

Do you think we can incorporate our two ''takes' into an email and begin circulation?

Did you guys catch the Fox/Wallace interview with the Romney family? Very well done. One thing that really struck me as very endearing was Ann sharing with the listening audience how Mitt, while working the Salt Lake City Olympics, took care of his sick wife. She said that Mitt did all the grocery shopping and would come home. fix her meals, then return to the Olympics. After thinking about that statement for a while...I said to myself WHAT? She actually is admitting they have no friends or relatives that care enough to help them in such dire circumstances; after all, Mitt has repeated on numerous occasions that he worked 16 hour days at the Olympics.


Well, it didn't take long or much in the way of support for someone who said they "give up" to come alive again.
What's the reference about John McCain all about. Moral mistakes?
The man was a prisoner of war for years. He refused to denounce the United States. I consider his service heroic. Not a matter of circumstance as Obama's involvement in bin Laden's take-down. I don't think he was out there turning over rocks looking for him. Not that ANY president would have been but some idiots are ready to nominate Obama for sainthood. AFTER ALL, HE WON THE NOBLE PEACE PRISE FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Caveman, I have the highest respect for McCaine and that he was a POW. He's a hero of this nation for sure. He probably would have won the election if he didnt select Sarah P. as his running mate.

I voted for Obama in the last election. Would have probably voted for Obama, no matter who McCaine's running mate would have been. I do think it was a timing thing on when Bin Ladens take down occured. I'd been more happy if it happened sooner during the Busch administrator. The sooner to get a terrorist out of commision the better.

Did JFK have an affair? LBJ? Clinton?
Let's not cloud the issue with the affairs of our politicians. Backroom deals and lies to the public are not restricted to one party. Neither is immoral behavior. Some have, some haven't. I'm more concerned with their qualifications and conduct while in elected office.
Has someone confused John McCain with Thom McAn the shoe guy? And you vote? There should be an apptitude test for voters. If you can't spell REPUBLICAN you're out. The Democrats depend on the votes of dim-witted illiterates and dependents on entitlement programs to get elected. Not that everyone who votes democrat falls into those catagories. It's just that's what puts democrats over the top when they are able to win. Obama's March Madness picks have been covered more than his politics. He's such a great guy. That friends, is a Republican lie. He's d v s. You fill in the blanks. (It's all vowels, if that helps you any).

Hard to defend a REPUBLICANT isn't it? Gotta keep changing the subject to avoid lack of answers.

Jane, while I have no doubt Romney would indeed do his best to bring in manufacturing under slave wages, I don't foresee his being remotely able to enforce his underwear. The Christian right may tolerate him to get rid of the black guy, but the pitchforks would appear rather quickly towards any enforcement of Mormon beliefs.

I think it was an Oral question with Clinton....LOL.

Obama's march madness picks? I guess I have to dictionary check that one. I have no clue about that one. I just know that my march madness picks are not too good. Just like bin laden being knabbed is in the past, the march madness picks are in the past.....LOL......or is it RFMLOA...

Katybug, Ill bet your 'his' as you referred to him, can't shut you up with duct tape.

hey Katybug, I think he (caveman) has a "h*rd *n" for you! I'm leaving out the vowells!!

LOL, I don't mind tbh, its rather funny.

Sorry Caveman, he has less patience than I do when dealing with the CANTS. Aside from that he's not a duck tape kind of man, he's more into fixing the actual problem. As well as my outspoken independent self being one of the things he loves most ;)

Romney is going to repeal ACA, wait he is going to keep parts, wait he has an imaginary plan of his own to replace the act modeled after his own act...I cant keep up


Maybe they should work on finding a way to combat the study after study coming out that VoucherCare is not acceptable for seniors.


These awards have been given from Norway or Sweden to individuals since 1901. Each recipient, or laureate, receives a gold medal, a diploma, and a sum of money which is decided by Nobel Foundation yearly.

The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 was awarded to Barack H. Obama "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples".
Key word here being "INTERNATIONAL" repeat "INTERNATIONAL."

As the leader of the most powerful nation in the world, George W. Bush was an extremely unpopular U.S. president overseas. A Pew Research survey comparing GWBush's 2008 international standing to that of Obama's 2012 standing has Obama's popularity at twice that of GWB in most cases.

As an example of the Pew Report

GERMANY 2008 - Bush 14% 2012 - Obama 87%
FRANCE 2008 - Bush 13% 2012 - Obama 86%
BRITAIN 2008 - Bush 16% 2012 - Obama 80%
SPAIN 2008 - Bush 08% 2012 - Obama 61%
POLAND 2008 - Bush 41% 2012 - Obama 50%
RUSSIA 2008 - Bush 22% 2012 - Obama 36%
TURKEY 2008 - Bush 02% 2012 - Obama 24%
EGYPT 2008 - Bush 11% 2012 - Obama 29%
JORDON 2008 - Bush 07% 2012 - Obama 22%
LEBANON 2008 - Bush 33% 2012 - Obama 39%
PAKISTAN 2008 - Bush 07% 2012 - Obama 07%
JAPAN 2008 - Bush 25% 2012 - Obama 74%
CHINA 2008 - Bush 30% 2012 - Obama 38%
MEXICO 2008 - Bush 16% 2012 - Obama 42%

And, BTW, did you know that President Obama gave the $1.4 million Nobel Peace Prize to ten charities rather than keeping it for himself and his family.

Following is a breakdown of Obama's donations:

- $250,000 to Fisher House, a national nonprofit organization providing accommodation for families of patients receiving medical care at military and Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers.
- $200,000 to the Clinton-Bush Haiti Fund, which was set up in the aftermath of the Haitian earthquake to help survivors.
- $125,000 to College Summit, a national nonprofit organization to increase college enrollment rates.
- $125,000 to the Posse Foundation, which awards scholarships to promising public high school students.
- $125,000 to the United Negro College Fund.
- $125,000 to the Hispanic Scholarship Fund.
_ $125,000 to the American Indian College Fund.
- $125,000 to the Appalachian Leadership and Education Foundation.
- $100,000 to AfriCare, which promotes health, food security and access to water primarily in Africa.
- $100,000 to the Central Asia Institute, which education and literacy, especially for girls, in remote regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Given the fact that the prize money was from an international organization, it was distributed well.

Caveman: "Not a matter of circumstance as Obama's involvement in bin Laden's take-down."

Ah, Caveman, you didn't read the article about a 'Presidential Finding,' did you? You asked the question, I respected you enough to bother to response and you don't even bother to read it? What does that say about your REAL interest in this topic?

If Bush had done the deed, he probably would have given us a national holiday...DARN, DARN, Why didn't he kill bin Laden? We could have been issued military tee shirts with "Mission Accomplished" printed on them.

Hey, Katybug, et al,

I didn't focus on this the first time I read it....

Caveman writes: "Only an idiot would give Obama credit...Clinton let bin Laden get away...."

See anything wrong with that logic (and I use the word loosely), folks?

Caveman, Telling Katybug that SHE is the one living in a dream world, Santa, bunnies, etc. PLEASE explain this to me because I cannot understand your statement about job creation. GW's tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 were given to the "job creators," right? And we do not want them reversed because that would destroy jobs, right? Okay, can you PLEASE explain to me where are all of these newly created jobs from those 2001 and 2003 tax cuts that were given to the job creators? I have put this question out to EVERY single person who makes the same statement as you made; but, to date, no one has even attempted to answer that question.

"Hostile government" or they closed their doors to move overseas for cheaper labor.

CAVEMAN -- Believe I owe you an apology. Thought I had posted this to you fyi; actually it was on another thread to someone else. Hope you will take a few minutes to scan this re-post.....

"a) Presidential findings
"The President may not authorize the conduct of a covert action by departments, agencies, or entities of the United States Government unless the President determines such an action is necessary to support identifiable foreign policy objectives of the United States and is important to the national security of the United States, which determination shall be set forth in a finding that shall meet each of the following conditions:" //read more//

Caveman: What's the reference about John McCain all about.


And now we have Jane. I hope these two are the brain trust of the Valley.

CNN had Romney Revealed and Obama Revealed back to back tonight. I caught the previews doing my channel flip during conventions. Both worth watching, both had positives/negatives. I just wish the Romney camp would stop putting his wife's illnesses out there as a connection piece. She has health issues I wouldn't wish on anyone, but there is a huge difference between her and a family that has to go around asking local stores if they can put a jar on their counter to collect money for a loved ones care. I really do not doubt the sincerity of the pain and suffering she or her family has been through but it just isn't the same as the average person's suffering and I really wish they would stop shoving it down voters throats as if it were. Especially when the his supposed first action is to take away the health care of millions.

Caveman: "And now we have Jane. I hope these two are the brain trust of the Valley."

Ah, Caveman, Is that your best response/comment for all the 'enlightenment' I have worked so hard to bestow upon you today (and using my vacation at that!). You sounded more sophisticated than just giving a "Tea Time" type of snide remark. Very, very disappointed! :(

Bashing Bully
by DAVID BADASH on MAY 10, 2012

Mitt Romney, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee, was a gay-bashing high school bully who said, “Atta girl,” to effeminate boys and shockingly had a days-long emotional attack that culminated with him pinning down a gay classmate and cutting off his bleached-blond long hair. Governor Romney claims he has no memory of any of these incidents that date back to 1965, according to a lengthy and heart-wrenching exposé in today’s Washington Post. An excerpt:

John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.

“He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenaged son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.

A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.

The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another. Four of them — Friedemann, now a dentist; Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer; Thomas Buford, a retired prosecutor; and David Seed, a retired principal — spoke on the record. Another former student who witnessed the incident asked not to be named. The men have differing political affiliations, although they mostly lean Democratic. Buford volunteered for Barack Obama’s campaign in 2008. Seed, a registered independent, has served as a Republican county chairman in Michigan. All of them said that politics in no way colored their recollections.

“It happened very quickly, and to this day it troubles me,” said Buford, the school’s wrestling champion, who said he joined Romney in restraining Lauber. Buford subsequently apologized to Lauber, who was “terrified,” he said. “What a senseless, stupid, idiotic thing to do.”

“It was a hack job,” recalled Maxwell, a childhood friend of Romney who was in the dorm room when the incident occurred. “It was vicious.”

Mitt Romney was not a 10 or 12 year old when he did this to Lauber; he was 18 years old. Old enough to vote!

Katybug, In 1998, Ann Romney was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and she admits to using alternative therapy which has put her disease into remission. I did find it interesting that she and Romney took the weekend off from campaigning after their visit to New Orleans. Seeing real people struggling must have been very unsettling for them. But Romney did help by advising someone who had lost their home to call 211. What a sham!

In 2008, soon after her diagnosis, she released a statement saying she had been diagnosed with ductal carcinoma in-situ (DCIS), a non-invasive type of breast cancer that is considered to be a precancerous form of the disease. After a routine mammogram, the then 59-year-old underwent a lumpectomy, followed by radiation therapy. While DCIS is not life threatening, when left untreated, in some cases it can become invasive.

So I agree with you, it is really quite tacky of her to exploit this.

Well, you people are absolutely brilliant, Caveman, Janie,and Katybug. I think that the Caveman tees up the issues of how stupid the Rebublicans positions are and Janie and Katybug drives home the facts. I admire all the time, information and internet links you guys opened up to this group of Valley people. I was wondering if you guys would would help us out here in Shendoah County. We have a problem getting the facts about the regional jail and we need the help.

OK, there Mr. Caveman.... You've been watching too much Glenn Beck and listening to too much Rush Limbaugh. I'm sorry for you.... sorry you can not support your "All-Tea-Party-All-The-Time" rhetoric with a cogent counter argument. Sorry you always revert to your self-denied description of knuckle-dragging Neanderthal. And sorry you never read this quote from Eleanor Roosevelt:

"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."

True, so far this post has been all about you, making me a self-admitted possessor of a 'small mind'. (didn't say I was perfect, just infallible, despite the small mind)

But, I will attempt to encompass 'great', 'average', and 'small' into one neat package if you will allow me the chance to redeem myself with the following idea describing an event concerning you:

Here's your hat..... there's the door.....punk.


Punk? ROFLMAO, you have it all wrong. Having an opinion doesn't make me a punk. However, acting like a jackass, the symbol of the Democratic party may make some one. It's a matter of how one conducts ones self.
Jane, this is how you spend vacation time. You should get out more. Talk to people with differing points of view. Sorry to disappoint. Some of your left-wing postings just aren't worth my time and response.
Unreeldeel, your regional jail issue isn't a hot- button issue for me just yet. Sorry!
Katybug, you and Jane and maybe even ROFLMAO make up a mutual admiration society. I seem to have ruffled ROFLMAO's feathers without even recognizing his presence. Then again, maybe that's the problem. You should exchange phone numbers and email addresses. Not here of course.
Again, I'm sorry to disappoint but I have never watched or listened to Beck or Limbaugh. We don't get all that on TV and radio here in Horse Cave, KY. I'm not a tea party person and I don't drink alcohol.

Caveman5974, certainly you have a right to your opinion. Certainly you have a right to vote for who you want. Certainly you have the right to support who you want----I do not think for one instant that there is anyone who posts on here who would disagree.

BUT---PLEASE----for your own sake, base your decisons on factual things and not on lies. Like everyone else, I periodically get the forwarded e-mails filled with hate and lies and yes, they are always against Obama saying he is not American or he is a Muslim, or he said "this" or did "that" (all untrue) or any of a number of out-and-our lies about him or Democrats. I reply back to not only the person who forwarded it to me, but to all the people they sent it to and direct them to one of the non-partisan fact-checking sites so they can see what lies are going around.

Tells me something about these people who write up these lies and start them around---if they are so sure of Romney and the Republicans having the better ideas for the country's sake over Obama and Democrats, why do they have to resort to lies?

Places like factcheck.org or snopes.com or politifact.com are good places to start at just to make sure what you have heard or read, not only from forwarded e-mails but from other places as well as from what the candidates say themselves have any basis in fact. You do not sound like a stupid person---don't allow yourself to act like one.

Caveman, better listen to 'song98' and absorb some of her advice. But, until you do, have another helping of ROFLMAO.......

Yeah, so, you stopped drinking when they invented the funnel?

Over here where I live in the heart of Tea Party Homeland.... Toad Suck, Tennessee, (near where we had the Scopes Monkey Trial featuring some of our relatives.... yours and mine.... ) we are quite proud of our ignorance, second only to the ignorant populace at Horse Cave, Ken-freakin-tucky.

I assume you have moved away from Front Royal? I say this only because the bulk of your previous postings (a couple dozen perhaps, reaching back to at least 3-22-10 and one of the more recent ones 5-1-12 applauding the demise of Lauder and Holloway and predicting the same for Tharpe and Sayre) all concerned some aspect of Front Royal political shenanigans, especially those of your 'good buddy' and best friend, Matt T. whose modesty prevents him from telling us just how good he really is. (I think he is "I'mdebtfree".... Whaddyathink?)

Say, what ever happened to your leader, Tin Foil Hat Timothy P. Ratigan, Sr.? Did he dry up and blow away? Still licking his wounds? Trying to think but nothing happens?


ROFLMAO, yours athe most absurd assumptions I've been charged with. I'm definitely not a Matt Tederick supporter, nor am I a Tim Ratigan fan.
My apologies to both for their names having been brought into this mud pit. Not my doing.
Song98 - my choices are based on my own moral values. Republicans have their problems just as Democcrats do but I will not vote for or support in any other way a candidate who is pro choice.
I believe I would be held accountable for supporting an issue that grieves God like the deaths of over 40 million babies by abortion.

Since becoming interested in "on-line" commenting and occasionally doing so, I have come to the conclusion this is a good place for those to "SHINE" who wish to do so. That is their right. However, I also feel there are many out there in our Valley who will be voting in November who do not have the time nor interest in such commenting. They are intelligent people who love our Country and fantastic members of the various Valley communities. Best to you Caveman!!!!!

Now it boils down to abortion? I would like to pint out a few fallacies with that. First and foremost the bible passages used to support the anti-choice position are almost always used in incomplete context "The word of the Lord came to me, saying, Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I sanctified you" leaving OUT the next verse.. "I ordained you a prophet to the nations".

Very Fox Spews esc to break apart a conversation between one man and God as to his future and to use that for their own agenda towards all mankind. Now we could battle scripture and our perception of it. The bible having been re-written a number of times is very open to interpretation and ultimately no one will truly know while living on earth.

If it is your belief that you will stand judgement for the choices women make, do you also believe you will stand judgement for the men dictating what exactly crimes are against women? Will you also stand in judgement for not fighting for stricter punishment for crimes against children? Will you be sent to Satan for the Judge that allowed the child molester to go free? Will you be condemned for having leftovers in your fridge, while another starves and dies while you could have donated more? Just curious, because if you don't feel that same responsibility, then by all accounts its a false claim to lend excuse for your need to control women and you should question that.

Let's look at their platform. NO exceptions. None. Conception is person. TGFMMAA pointed out on another thread something I believe many women really aren't considering. If allowed to have their way the right would have no grey area. "I" chose tubal ligation (tubes tied) to ensure the end of my child bearing. The only concern with my choice is the possibility of "ectopic pregnancy", which in fact tubal increases the chances. (You can research if you like) An ectopic pregnancy has zero chance of becoming anything, it is lodged in the wrong part of the anatomy. The only result possible from allowing it to continue is the death of the woman involved. Its not a possibility, its a certainty.

So under the extreme whackjob platform, "I" would be condemned to death for a child that could never come to be. If that wasn't bad enough, they then want to take away the very programs my family would be forced to turn to after they for all intents murdered me for their own screwed up sense of morals. Don't tell me, oh that wont happen, how many conception equals life bills came up since the extremes took over the right? For one supposedly worried about the judgement that God would place on them, doesn't intentionally sending innocent women to die seem a little hypocritical?

Katybug, I had actually written a reply to Caveman when I saw he had brought the abortion issue up----now. But my comment somehow got "lost". That is ok, as you did a far better job in your reply.

As has been said numerous times, there is so much "concern" for the unborn, but not much care for the poor child who is needy and would greatly benefit from those programs the Republicans are against and ready to slash-----while at the very same time fighting to give that which benefits the very wealthy.

And anyone who does not think prior to Roe v Wade that there were many abortions----back alley, unsterile, horrible conditions---- going on with women dying, is just plain naive and in their own little world------or maybe, they just do not care.

There are enough verses in the bible where we are expressly directed to help the poor and needy. (Feed the poor, Clothe the naked, etc.) But the self-righteous crowd are too busy trying to dictate to women while also forgetting that God gave us all free will. If He gave us free will, who are we to dictate to others how to live.

Agreed Song. Its all very open to how one believes, we were given free will and Jesus was given to die for the sins we may make, our salvation coming in recognizing and repenting. (That is my take anyhow) Its a very precarious position in some way to use the bible for justification of any stance because the reverse position can be found through scripture as well.

Which is why there should definitely be separation of church and state. It is not our governments duty to regulate anyone's immortal soul, or to try to decipher the many positions within biblical law. Government serves to do what is best for ALL constituents.

True, Katybug, it is important that we respect the separation of church and state. This diverse country or ours is not a theocracy but there are those who "forget".

That's not the passage I was thinking of, it's "Thou shalt not kill".
I don't believe I will be held accountable for the sinful actions of others unless I do something to facilitate it or give credence to it.
I don't watch Fox News and have no idea where your assumptions come from except there are obviously others who share my view and some of them may be on TV.
I believe murder is a moral issue. God gave mankind the means to produce life but it is his to take. My position on abortion may be somewhat contradictory. I believe where the life of the mother is in peril, rape or incest is concerned it should be an option. Not strictly as birth control.
It seems you need something to do with your time. Get a job. I did mine protecting people like you.

Katybug, while you're busy looking up your information, look up Fast and Furious. Familiar with that one? If we give Obama credit for taking down bin Laden we have to give him credit for putting guns in the hands of the Mexican drug lords.

Sure Caveman, and while we are at it, lets look up Operation Wide Receiver. Fast's mother program. Let's not pretend that this whole idea is new to Obama's term. The difference this time is one of our own died instead of some unknown Mexican. That is part of the risk of being in law enforcement.

BTW, you stated you allow for exceptions but yet you would vote for NO exceptions. Instead of voting to allow women to decide their sin, who choose to accept the murder of women, probably girls on your own. Kinda like Mitt now claiming he is against an industry he made money off.

My job is Mom. Sorry that's not up to snuff in your eyes, but I wouldn't imagine anything less from one with such backwards views of the world.

Worth noting Caveman, I'm voluntarily making it my job to combat ignorance with facts. A completely free service for the greater good of my country. Knowing that I while I may be doggedly shoveling away at the B.S., the bonus is at the end there people like you stand, showing your arse for the world to see your made up world, with made up facts, distortions and lies.

Its WORTH every minute!!!

The last republican I talked to was the one that telemarketed my house at 9;01 P.M. tonight waking up my kids and wife. I gave him an earfull, just like the mortgage guy that called late a few days ago, because I'm 8 days late from until my grace period on my mortgage.

CAVE: "Some of your left-wing postings just aren't worth my time and response."

Okay, cavemen5974, which of my posting do you consider 'left-wing' postings...the paper explaining "Presidential Findings"? Not interested in the truth?

I am having a GREAT holiday, thank you. I can only shop, sight see, and gamble for so long (Grand Sierra is prime) while he is busy; thus I figured by your statement regarding the President's involvement that you just do not understand how these scenarios play out. And since you refuse to read the article I posted, you have no interest, okay. Again, sorry that you aren't really interested in educating yourself on what procedures are used in incidents such as U.S. relations with foreign governments.

Sorry, but again, your statement is not logical.

Caveman writes: "Only an idiot would give Obama credit...Clinton let bin Laden get away...."

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