Letter to the Editor: America's sad state of affairs

^ Posted Nov. 14


Aside from the details concerning how the government of Nazi Germany assassinated innocent groups of its own people, can anybody, anybody tell me how the U.S.'s use of drone attacks on suspected terrorists (not confirmed terrorists) is any different when, according to Congressman Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, over 3,000 innocent people have been murdered (conveniently labeled "collateral damage" by the news) as a result? Especially when Congress has not given the president a declaration of war?

The status quo is now, "Guilty of terrorism when suspected, sentenced to death, along with those who happen to be around you, whether in your home or in public."

We've created a new group that everyone can hate and not feel bad about when they are murdered..."suspected terrorists," a very vague title that thanks to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA, passed by the Congress and signed into law last December) can be given to anybody. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is history paralleling itself.

Jason Perry, Toms Brook


"According to data compiled by the New America Foundation from reliable news reports, 337 CIA drone strikes in Pakistan have killed an estimated 1,908 to 3,225 people since 2004, of which 1,618 - 2,769 were reported to be militants.

"This means the average non-militant casualty rate over the life of the program is 15-16 percent. In 2012 it has been 1-2 percent, down sharply from its peak in 2006 of over 60 percent."


National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2005, from the Congressional Budget Office
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007, from GovTrack.us
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008, from GovTrack.us
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, from GovTrack.us
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010: H.R. 2647 and S. 1391
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011, from the Congressional Budget Office
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, from GovTracks.us
S. 1867 : AN ACT To authorize appropriations for fiscal year 2012 for military activities of the Department of Defense
[1] from Reuters.com
(Source Wikipedia)

Yes, the GWB Administration really did send us down a road of destruction! NDAA, Homeland Security, etc., totally disregarding the Geneva convention while in Iraq. We are becoming the people we oppose.

@ jane re November 14, 2012 9:54 AM post: If there is a connection between the list of authorizations and your continuing Bush blaming, you did a good job of obscuring it.

Most, if not all, economic indicators are worse now than Jan 2009. Who will the anointed one say he inherited this mess from? Oh, yeah - himself.

“The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been—some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started—but nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, affected the economy.” ~ George W. Bush

So,vp, in GWB's own words...they walked into the beginning of a recession so they had eight (8) years to 'turn it around'. I'm sure you have an excuse for such total incompetence????

valley patriot; every time you lob one over the plate, some one hits a homerun. Thanks for making us laugh at your expense.

Once again somebody we all know and love enjoys the taste of shoe leather. I wonder which bus he rode when going to school? Some folks look stunning wearing a white plastic helmet.


like shooting fish in a barrel


The truly said state is that the USA ranks the highest in healthcare costs in the world, but comes in dead last in the care received for those dollars. Think about that Mr. Bost and Valley Patriot.


That should read SAD not said.

jane, re November 14, 2012 6:17 PM post: tactic #4 distract by answering a question with a question.

The recession of 2001 that GWB was referring to lasted only 8 months; Barry's of 2009 officially lasted a miserable 18 months but we all know it's still going on. He wasn't responsible for the circumstances that started it, but he is responsible for it lasting so long. The slight signs of recovery we've seen will be negated by tax hikes and increased government spending - sorry, investment.

vp, HOWEVER, WE STILL KNOW THAT BUSH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR COUNTRY GETTING INTO THIS MESS. Bush really went on a binge...One necessary war, one totally unnecessary war, sending out checks in the amount of $300 or $600 (the effects of that were VERY short lived), medicare drug bill, tax break (sic), etc.

Did you know the Embassy in Baghdad--largest and most expensive of any embassy in the world-- cost $750 million to build.

"A week after submitting his FY2006 budget to Congress, the President sent Congress an FY2005 emergency supplemental funding request. Included in the supplemental is more than $1.3 billion for the embassy in Iraq." (wiki)

Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings

Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion

Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion

Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion

U.S. Annual Air-Conditioning Cost in Iraq and Afghanistan - $20.2 billion (Source - NPR, June 25, 2011)

U.S. 2009 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $7.3 billion as of Oct 2009

U.S. 2008 Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion

U.S. Spending per Second - $5,000 in 2008 (per Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on May 5, 2008)


So, vp, How long do you think it should have taken Obama and team to pull out of this? And what would you have had him do to kick it in gear?

Stock Market down 700 points ... Unemployment 439,000 from 375,000 since the election ... yeah it's all about Bush....

Far right wing bible-thumping Teabilly evangelical fundamentalists just hate it when a person of color tells a grumpy old white guy what to do next.

But, if Jesus (just like the prophets Muhammed and Moses) was born, raised, lived, and presumably died in the middle east, doesn't that imply, like everybody else living there even today, he was dark skinned too?

Water to wine.... one loaf into many... black to white.... are these miracles or what? There is the crux of the paradox problem, how do you love a black man? Solved by painting Jesus white?

Now all they need to perpetuate the farce are facial images appearing on burnt toast.

vmj, I have seen nothing that indicates the problems we're dealing with are 'ALL' GW's fault...actually I think GW was to stupid to understand just how much Cheney was pulling his puppet strings!

I bet you, vmj, have NO IDEA what caused the surge in unemployment, do you? You really should try to read beyond the first paragraph of an article and actually begin understanding what is going on in your country.

"Superstorm Sandy drove new claims for jobless benefits to a 1-1/2 year high last week, a sign the deadly storm could hold back economic growth by leaving tens of thousands of people temporarily out of work.

"Initial claims for state unemployment benefits rose 78,000 to a seasonally adjusted 439,000, the Labor Department said. That was the highest level since April 2011 and well above the median forecast in a Reuters poll. It was also the biggest one-week increase in new claims since 2005."


(Source: Newsmax Media is a conservative American news media )

Americans, You NEED to begin to realize WHY things happen not JUST that they happen.

If the President sticks to his guns as he was elected to do, the market will probably drop some more assuming Republicans stick to paying lip service to the few over the many.

vmj notes stock market down 700 points.....

Yep, The Stock Market is a strange thing....up, down, up, down, up, down...It is a major source of concern that every president has had to deal with....

President Bush tried to calm turmoil in financial markets on March 17, 2008, by saying that his administration is "on top of the situation" in dealing with the slumping Economy of the United States.[75] Bush and Congress had responded to signs of a slowing economy with the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 on February 13. Without enough cash to pay out its Lehman-related debts, AIG went under and was nationalized. Credit markets locked up and catastrophe seemed all too likely. Paulson proposed providing liquidity to financial markets by having the government buy up debt related to bad mortgages with a Troubled Asset Relief Program. Congressional Democrats advocated an alternative policy of investing in financial companies directly. Congress passed the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, which authorized both policies.[78] Throughout the crisis, Bush seemed to defer to Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke. He kept a low public profile on the issue with his most significant role being a public television address where he announced that a bailout was necessary otherwise the United States "could experience a long and painful recession." [79](wiki)

Interesting stock market read is Black Friday when Reagan was president.

Came across this yesterday: On January 20th, 2009, the very day that President Barack Obama was sworn in, a group of men held a meeting in which they made a pact to violate their oath of office.

The participants were the following:

Frank Luntz, Republican Party strategist
Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House

Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA)
Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-TX)
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-MI)
Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA)
Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA)
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)
Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX)

Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK)
Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN)
Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC)
Sen. John Ensign (R-NV)
Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ)

These men pledged to block and obstruct President Obama on any and all legislation, and this has been confirmed – by some of the participants themselves – on numerous occasions.

Now, the oath of office for federal officials reads as follows:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, WITHOUT ANY MENTAL RESERVATION or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.” [capslock mine]

Federal law regulating oath of office by government officials is divided into four parts along with an executive order which further defines the law for purposes of enforcement.

5 U.S.C. 3331 provides the text of the actual oath of office members of Congress are required to take before assuming office.

5 U.S.C. 3333 requires members of Congress sign an affidavit that they have taken the oath of office required by 5 U.S.C. 3331, and have not or will not violate that oath of office during their tenure of office, as defined by the third part of the law, 5 U.S.C 7311.

In order to instruct investigating federal officials as to what is a violation of the oath of office under 5 U.S.C 3331 and 5 U.S.C. 7311, Executive Order 10450 was issued.

Executive Order 10450 states (in part): “Whereas the interest of the national security require that all persons privileged to be employed in ... the Government skal be reliable, trustworthy, of good conduct and character, and OF COMPLETE AND UNSWERVING LOYALTY TO THE UNITED STATES...” [capslock mine]

Federal criminal law is explicit and direct regarding a violation of oath of office by federal officials which includes all members of Congress. The law requires the removal of the office holder as well as a prison term or fine for the offender.

The key sentences here are the ones I capslocked: “without any mental reservation”, and “of complete and unswerving loyalty to the United States”.

When these men pledged to oppose your head of state, uncritically, regardless of the nature and intent of the legislation, regardless of whether or not it would be better for the United States, they were *not* “of complete and unswerving loyalty to the United States”, and they were *not* “without any mental reservation”. These men violated federal law, and some of them already pleaded guilty – in public – by admitting they took that pledge, and Congressional records will show that they kept it.

Furthermore, any member of Congress who has signed Grover Norquist’s Taxpayer Protection Pledge is also in violation of their oath of office, because they *had* “a mental reservation” when they took or affirmed that oath.

Personally I am curious to know if they could actually be charged. Anyone more knowledgeable???

Since Bush/Cheney managed to pull off their "war of opportunity" in Iraq and not be IMPEACHED, it looks like anything goes! I would love to see these elected officials charged accordingly.

Great entry Katybug! Where is the outrage and most of all the justice. Someone should give (us), WE THE PEOPLE the collective right to go after these violators!

I believe Big Money makes this "can of worms" not worth opening for many. Unfortunately if this "plot" is not worth going after, what is? Of course McCain already wants a big investigation on Rice. That old, white man hasn't been in the limelight for a while: got to be rough on the ego.

At some point in time McCain will tip the scales that balance his military service against his caustic comments. It is time this crusty old white guy has-been hangs up his spurs and rides quietly into the sunset of his now worthless life.

Sarcasm Jane8 ... and if Newsmax is correct about the unemployment numbers it will be realised in the next few weeks ... or there will be yet more excuses for the weak sickeningly slow economy and this horrendous unemployment rate.

Always excuses never solutions ... tired yet???

Katybug ... plenty of finger pointing but neglect to add a source to your post. Without that, just so much of nothing....

The bold print was my asking for fact-checking input. I tend to forget sometimes to dumb down the obvious to blatantly obvious. This particular posting was from FB. Several politicians have mentioned this meeting and a book was wrote about it.
The book

A Liberal sites story on it


@ katy re November 15, 2012 11:03 AM post: You have really gone off the reservation with this one. Your argument is disingenuous and illogical. As many of you libs do, you have equated the anointed one, a person, with the U.S., an institution.

The oaths state "...the United States" not "...the president." None of us owe loyalty or allegiance to the president. If we did, it would be a crime to vote against him/her.

If anyone has ignored and violated his oath, it is the anointed one. "For instance, our Constitution gives the Senate a key check on executive power by requiring the president to seek Senate approval to appoint senior officials. Article II provides that the president “shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate shall appoint ... officers of the United States.”

The president may bypass the Senate under only one circumstance: “The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate.” This winter, the Senate did not go into recess and on January 3 conducted a pro forma session. But the next day, the president simply declared the Senate to be “in recess,” though it plainly was not. Then, he purported to appoint several officers, evading the Senate’s constitutional role. It was the first time in U.S. history that a president attempted to make recess appointments when the Senate -- by its own lights -- was not in recess. Obama flouted the plain language of the Constitution, pronouncing a naked assertion of power: “I refuse to take ‘no’ for an answer.” These appointments have been challenged in court, and it is likely that they will be declared unconstitutional.

Making illegal appointments is just one way Obama has undermined the separation of powers. He has also skirted his duty to fairly implement the laws. The Constitution grants Congress the authority to enact legislation but requires the president to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” Obama failed to do this when adherence to the law would not reach his desired result.

Take, for instance, Obama’s war in Libya. The War Powers Resolution requires the president to terminate the use of armed forces within 60 days after hostilities begin unless Congress authorizes military action. Like the Appointments Clause, the War Powers Resolution is a legislative check on executive power. But here too, Obama could not be bothered with any such restriction, evading it with the flimsiest of legalistic explanations.

Obama shunned the War Powers Resolution by claiming the United States was not engaged in “hostilities” in Libya. According to the president, “hostilities” ceased when we started fighting with remote warfare. But, of course, sending missiles in drones is just as “hostile” as firing with piloted fighter jets. Just as a convenient redefinition of “recess” served to obviate the Senate’s check on his appointments power, here a convenient redefinition of “hostilities” negated Congress’s check on his military power. Regardless of one's views on the Libyan mission, distorting the plain language of an act of Congress undermines the rule of law and flouts the president’s constitutional duty to enforce acts of Congress.

In fact, Obama’s legal argument was so far-fetched that his own Department of Justice rejected it and urged him to comply with the law. But, taking a results-oriented approach, the president chose to ignore the advice and sidestep the statute." (Townhall)

Thank-you VP for the usual non-answer, divert attention tactic :)

Hannity is right in one thing, Obama is the *anointed one*, as he anointed POTUS by the majority.

Again Anyone more knowledgeable??? on the US Codes mentioned and if it could be construed as violations, or even further, if they Norquist pledges could be?

Katy, Katy, Katy ... really? Wikip ... Daily Kos and Al Sharpton ... come on can't you do better than that???

OK, 'vjm' and 'vp', don't you know it is dangerous to dive in the shallow end of the pool? Always look both ways before crossing the street.

"tired yet:

It is obvious to me that your educational level is insufficient to allow you to decipher this complicated issue so YES I am tired,,,tired of trying to explain issues that you do not have the capability to comprehend. So, therefore, I will set you adrift into the sea of ignore from which I tried to rescue you.

jame8: im definately tired on here, I can not keep up with copying and pasting, the red vs the blue. etc. etc.

I saw a comment on here a while back, I'm not sure which article or which poster person....but It said wouldnt it be nice if there was no republican nor democratic party. The candidatetes just ran on their own names, and no money backing parties.

to the original letter above: I do not thing we need drone's spying on us. For the short letter I thin that is what he was getting at.

ignore should be IGNORANCE!

Shenandoah Valley Teabillies will never face reality and for that we thank you for sealing your own doom. Goodbye and good riddance.

Why did Romney loose the election? His Republican Racism, pure and simple.

We now know the Republican overt racism of the 1960's, (camouflaged by Lee Atwater in 1981) has been replaced by the dog-whistle racism of this decade:


or Google
"Lee Atwater 1981 Interview"
and pick your own, including a video of the interview in question

yes we love these URL links on here. Please if you post comments on here. Say something with your own words.

@ joe s re November 15, 2012 1:17 PM post: John McCain spent 5 1/2 yrs as a POW being tortured. He is one of America's true heroes. To call his life "worthless" because you disagree with his politics is despicable. You should be ashamed for saying it and your liberal pack members should be ashamed for not calling you out on it.

I'm guessing you never served because I can't imagine a vet saying something like that. If you did serve, you should turn in your DD214.

VP, wasn't it McCain who went right along with "torture is legal"?

also, don't get all hyped up. IIRC it was people like yourself who swiftboat.....


The "bottom line", of course, is that, under the guidance of the Dominionist Empire Musical Chairs Party the USA people love to kill brown people vicariously and they appoint sexy generals with their RICH mistresses to do the dirty work for them.

As Commander In Chief Mr. Obama could have stopped the killing the day after taking office. But, he was called into a back room at the Pentagon and told to "play ball" with the ASSASSINATION team - or else. Naturally, he "saw the handwriting on the wall".


shendoah1 --
You suggested I "say something with your own words".
Ok, how about this....

I wrote 78 words all by myself, most of them spelled right, and all of them are really swell examples of stringing letters together to make words and then stringing them words together to make sentences composed of nouns, verbs, and adjectives that express a complete thoughtful idea. My mommy is so proud. One of these days I'm gonna ride on the long bus with the big kids.

How's this for a URL link on here everybody can love?

The problem with using "only" your own words is that someone will ask for a reference or proof. Its easier just to give both.

McCain was called out on CNN, as he should be. For missing a Benghazi briefing to complain to the media about the lack of information regarding Benghazi! He is making himself the fool for left wing fodder and that is all on him.

"I" actually tuned in to the hearings yesterday as Yahoo had a live stream while oddly enough CSPAN wasn't covering. (I have 3 CSPANS, not a one)

I will be shocked if anything actually comes from the hearing part of the investigation. All I saw for almost an hour was grandstanding. *From both sides, btw

The "witness" was repeatedly asked questions he couldn't answer as his involvement with Libya ended in 09. Committee members each had their own speeches to give along with their "questions", one even comparing Benghazi to the movie Argo as that's what she watched on her vacation.

The whole congressional investigation is a waste of money pure and simple. This is the downside to technology. 20 years ago there was time for the right people to actually investigate this stuff. You know the CIA, FBI, DOJ, etc...not a bunch of politicians who hope to get a few votes out of it. Or in McCain's case, a little airtime.

and if Newsmax is correct about the unemployment numbers

Jobless Claims in U.S. Jumped Last Week After Sandy

The reports add to evidence of the economic toll taken by Sandy, which killed more than 100 people in the U.S., disrupted rail and subway service, left more than for days and caused insured losses estimated at $20 billion. Many of those who lost their jobs were unable to immediately file claims* because of the disruption caused by the storm, swelling the numbers last week.


* And guess what that means??? The unemployment rate will go even higher!!!!

How Hurricanes Impact Unemployment, in One Chart

Having lost everything in Hurricane Andrew in 1992 in Homestead, Fl., I do understand this; that said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure the impact Sandy will have given the damage in NJ and NY, vmj.

Trying to educate the public is sometimes very tedious but if it teaches even one person to THINK, maybr it's worth the time.

November 15, 2012 4:12 PM by its own lights -- was not in recess.

On January 4, 2012, Barack Obama made four recess appointments: Richard Cordray to serve as Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and appointed three new members to the National Labor Relations Board.

On January 6, 2012, the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel issued an opinion regarding recess appointments and pro forma sessions, claiming that "[t]he convening of periodic pro forma sessions in which no business is to be conducted does not have the legal effect of interrupting an intrasession recess otherwise long enough to qualify as a "Recess of the Senate" under the Recess Appointments Clause. In this context, the President therefore has discretion to conclude that the Senate is unavailable to perform its advise-and-consent function and to exercise his power to make recess appointments."

Professor Richard Epstein: "... it is for the Senate and not for the President to determine whether the Senate is in session. The usual view in all cases is that the internal rules of each institution govern its operations, and for the President to say that the Senate is not in session when the Senate says that it is, introduces a set of constitutional confrontations that we would be far better off doing without."

FYI, Professor Epstein is an Adjunct Scholar at the (1) Cato Institute, The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C. It was founded as the Charles Koch Foundation in 1974 by Murray Rothbard, Ed Crane and Charles Koch, chairman of the board and chief executive officer of the conglomerate Koch Industries, Inc. In July 1976, the name was changed to the Cato Institute. (2) He is a member of the Hoover Institution, an American public policy think tank located at Stanford University in California, which is influential in the American conservative and libertarian movements. The Institution has long been a place of scholarship for high-profile conservatives with government experience. (3) The Heartland Institute* is an American conservative and libertarian public policy think tank based in Chicago.

* This group worked with the tobacco company Philip Morris to question the science linking secondhand smoke to health risks; lobbied against government public-health reforms. More recently, the Institute has focused on questioning the science of climate change, and was described by the New York Times as "the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism." The Institute has sponsored meetings of climate change skeptics, and has been reported to promote public school curricula challenging the scientific consensus on climate change

Wonder what else these people are trying to plant in the minds of our school children and how embedded they are already?

VP, remember that John Bolton recess appointment in 2007?

VP - November 14, 2012 10:39 PM

Evidently GWB didn't believe it was over in 18 months as he was still explaining away in 2004!?!

"The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been-some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started-but nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here. The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and therefore affected the economy. My decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war, affected the economy."- Meet the Press, Feb. 8, 2004</b?

valley patriot replied to comment from Katybug | November 15, 2012 4:12 PM

vp, Did you know that President Obama taught at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years REPEAT 12 years—as a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996, and as a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004—teaching CONSTITUTIONAL LAW.

valley patriot replied to comment from Joe Schmo | November 15, 2012 10:28 PM

John McCain is just a pilot who, unfortunately, was shot down. His father and grandfather were military VIPs and everything I read on this man leads me to believe he was a young, cocky, spoiled little rich kid like GWB who believed he did NOT have to read the books or attend the drills. Being a POW does NOT make one a hero...it may actually mean that the individual was incompetent!

You want true American heroes? Pat Tillman and each one of our men and women who have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

@ jane re November 16, 2012 4:43 PM post: I've heard that one of the best ways to learn is to teach. In Obama's case, it didn't take.

re November 16, 2012 1:33 PM post: ???

re November 16, 2012 4:02 PM post: Read my post again and try to keep up. GB's recession lasted 8 months. 2001 Recession - It lasted eight months (March-November 2001). http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossdomesticproduct/a/recession_histo.htm Obama's recession officially lasted 18 months but we know it is still going on. (Call Hostess and C.E. Thompson for confirmation.)


Poor management cost Thompson's. They were lucky to operate in an environment with no competition for years.

I guess I asked for that! HA ha. I'm a good sport. I think I get over my head when i get in talks about politics.

I'll just stick with my expertese with judjing good restaraunts.

@ bitter jane re November 16, 2012 5:24 PM post: This is so outrageous it doesn't deserve rebuttal. To lash out in this manner at this man demonstrates an unhealthy level of unhappiness and bitterness.

Valley patriot, and others.....I'll leave a 6 pack of 24 ouncers somwhere along the old indian trail under a bush Please take what you need.

@ ronnie re November 16, 2012 6:14 PM post: Now you're a business analyst. The company survived 54 years and 6 recessions. The worst since the big one finally puts them under and you say it's bad management, not competition (and didn't even mention reduced building and consumer spending). Competition - how about Lowe's, Ace, Zirkle, Do-it-Best, Randy's, Broadway Hardware, H.L. Borden, and Kennedy Supply. Those are just local.

valley patriot replied to comment from Jane8 | November 16, 2012 8:10 PM

Ah, did I mess up again. So sorry.

You are so funny. Thanks for the entertainment.

Here is an article about you hero McCain...enjoy.


John McCain was a privileged, but rebellious scion of one of America’s most distinguished military dynasties – his father and grandfather were both admirals.

Ted Sampley, who fought with US Special Forces in Vietnam and is now a leading campaigner for veterans’ rights, said: ‘I have been following John McCain’s career for nearly 20 years. I know him personally. There is something wrong with this guy and let me tell you what it is – deceit.

‘When he came home and saw that his wife Carol was not the beauty he left behind, he started running around on her almost right away. Everybody around him knew it.
‘Eventually he met Cindy and she was young and beautiful and very wealthy. At that point McCain just dumped Carol for something he thought was better.

‘This is a guy who makes such a big deal about his character. He has no character. He is a fake.

One old friend of the McCains said: ‘Carol always insists she is not bitter, but I think that’s a defense mechanism. She also feels deeply in his debt because in return for her agreement to a divorce, he promised to pay for her medical care for the rest of her life.’

But Ross Perot, who paid her medical bills all those years ago, now believes that both Carol McCain and the American people have been taken in by a man who is unusually slick and cruel – even by the standards of modern politics.

‘McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory,’ he said.


Again, from what I have read about McCain, Perot has it exactly right.

Katybug | November 15, 2012 11:03 AM

They were much more secretive about their meeting after this recent election given the fact that the 2008 gathering was publicized.

Yes these things happen when a big box store moves in. Walmart in Woodstock came on the scene when there was no recession. How many people went out of buisness because of that opening? These things happen because the world is changing but keep holding onto the world you grew up in.

Btw, the inference should have been clear to you that I was talking about Lowe's when I said Thompson's faced no competition for years.

One more thing VP I'm a lot closer to knowing the details of Thompson's than you I bet.

VP what's your response to this. LMAO

The Republicans have learned NOTHING...still lying.

In press conferences on the so-called fiscal cliff, House Speaker John Boehner greatly exaggerated the negative effect on the economy of raising taxes on upper-income individuals.

--Boehner erred when he said that “the problem with raising tax rates on the wealthiest Americans is that more than half of them are small-business owners.” That’s incorrect. Boehner’s spokesman said the speaker simply misspoke, but Boehner is a repeat offender with this bogus claim.
--Boehner repeatedly cited an Ernst & Young analysis to claim that raising taxes on upper-income earners would “destroy nearly 700,000 jobs in our country.” But that analysis assumes revenue from the taxes would be used “to finance a higher level of government spending,” even though Obama would use the added revenue to reduce the deficit. The analysis also takes an extremely long view: Only “two-third to three-quarters of the long-run effect” is expected to occur within a decade.
--Boehner said raising taxes on those making over $250,000 “would slow our economy.” But according to a recently released report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the effect on the economy would be “relatively small.”


valley patriot, Here is another article on McCain written by a gentleman* who knew who knew McCain well.

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink (watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes. I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 1/2 years later, so he was a POW for 5 1/2 years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.

John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More than 600 of us did the same


* Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals. After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy Organizational Effectiveness consultant. He completed his Navy career in 1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace.

Darn! I wish this site had 'an edit' and 'like' button!!!!

VI shares your wish! :)

Joe S & VP
Re: John McCain

I agree John McCain was not highly regarded during his military career. He graduated from the Naval Academy 894th out of 899 in his class, and was admonished by the Senate Ethics Committee for showing "poor judgment" being cozy with savings and loan swindler Charles Keating.

This article will shed more light on John McCain's military career;


vp, Some more interesting press....


After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.

The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."

For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell*, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."

For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.

McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.

*Garnett 'Bill' Bell, a native of Texas and a retired GM-14, DoD, went to Vietnam as an infantryman in 1965 and served four tours there. Bell was awarded 20 individual decorations and numerous unit awards. Bell later served as an instructor in the Department of Exploitation and Counterintelligence, U.S. Army Intelligence Center and school. During his career Bell served in the 327th Airborne Battle Group, 101st Airborne Division, the 1/35th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division, the 2/506th Airborne Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division, the 101st MI Company, the 525th Military Intelligence Group, the Defense Language Institute, the U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, the 6th Special Forces Group, the Joint Casualty Resolution Center (JCRC), the Four Party Joint Military Team (FPJMT) and the Joint Task Force Full-Accounting (JTFFA). Bell's wife and son were killed and a daughter critically injured in April 1975, when the families of U.S. officials assigned to the American Embassy in Saigon were evacuated in conjunction with the 'Operation Babylift' program. After being evacuated by helicopter from the roof of the American Embassy on the final day of the Republic of Vietnam (RVN) (30 April 1975), Bell returned to postwar Vietnam as the first official U.S. representative after the war ended when he was assigned as the Chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs in Hanoi. He served more than 12 years on the POW/MIA Search Teams. An Airborne-Ranger and Jumpmaster, Bell eventually became a member of the Congressional Staff, U.S. House of Representatives. Bell is a life member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), the Combat Infantryman's Association (CIA) and the Military Order of the Purple Heart (MOPH). Fluent in Vietnamese, Thai and Laotian, Bell is employed as an investigator in the 12th Judicial Districts Western Arkansas.

410,000 unemployment claims ... still being affected by Sandy ... how about all the employment opportunities clearing, securing, approving, building, housing, feeding, transporting etc. they need people many more people ... that alone should off set this unemployment excuse.

How long will THIS excuse be used? As long as people bite...

Again ... just more excuses for an ecomony moving backwords....

vmj.....there is only one cure for sore losermenitus...... accepting reality.

Do join us there.

Reality is my middle name. Rose colored glasses seem to be the order of the day here tho....

That's odd. Because of your opinions expressed on these forums, everyone thinks your middle name might be 'Grumpyoldwhiteguy".

@ jane re November 17, 2012 12:25 AM post: Other than that he was divorced, I was unaware of these allegations. I'm not going to deny them. I'll just make these comments. The Daily Mail is a tabloid; snopes is run by a liberal; there are no other sources; neither McCain's wife nor Perot confirmed the allegations. Last, the article laughably described Virginia Beach as a "faded seaside resort" to bring sympathy to McCain's ex. For me, that puts a crack in the credibility of the entire article. If it is true, I am disappointed in him as a man. It does not change my opinion of him as a hero of this country.

You have discounted everything McCain did, and was done to him, in service to his country because you are convinced he did something dishonorable that had nothing to do with that service and was not criminal.

@ ron re November 17, 2012 7:02 PM post: I be jus a ignernt teabilly. Nuthin is cleer ta me and you always knows more than me bout everthing.

vp (November 21, 2012 8:18 PM ), I guess you didn't read the articles I posted too carefully. Perot IS NOT repeat NOT a McCain fan!

You are right that "The Daily Mail is a tabloid"; however,

The Daily Mail journalists have won a range of British Press Awards, including:
"Campaign of the Year" (Murder of Stephen Lawrence, 2012)
"Website of the Year" (Mail Online, 2012)
"News Team of the Year" (Daily Mail, 2012)
"Critic of the Year" (Quentin Letts, 2010)[53]
"Political Journalist of the Year" (Quentin Letts, 2009)
"Specialist Journalist of the Year" (Stephen Wright, 2009)[54]
"Showbiz Reporter of the Year" (Benn Todd, 2012)
"Feature Writer of the Year - Popular" (David Jones, 2012)
"Columnist of the Year - Popular" (Craig Brown, 2012)
"Best of Humour" - (Craig Brown, 2012)
"Columnist - Popular" (Craig Brown, 2012)
"Sports Reporter of the Year" (Jeff Powell, 2005)
"Sports Photographer of the Year" (Mike Egerton, 2012; Andy Hooper, 2010, 2008)
Other awards include:
"Orwell Prize" (Toby Harnden, 2012)
"Hugh Cudlipp Award" (2012; Stephen Wright/Richard Pendlebury, 2009; 2007)[55]

It doesn't show much intelligence to compare these British papers to 'The National Inquirer.'

Re Snopes, It is a well-known resource for validating and debunking such stories in American popular culture,[3] receiving 300,000 visits a day.[4] (wiki)

Snopes? Barbara Mikkelson is a Canadian citizen, and as such isn’t allowed to vote here or contribute money to U.S. candidates. As for him, "My sole involvement in politics is on Election Day to go out and vote. I’ve never joined a party, worked for a campaign or donated money to a candidate." "You’d be hard-pressed to find two more apolitical people," David Mikkelson said. We checked online to see if he had given money to any federal candidates, and nothing turned up. Mikkelson even faxed us a copy of his voter registration form. He asked us not to post an image of it here, but we can confirm that it shows he declined to state a party affiliation when he registered last year, and also that when he registered in 2000 he did so as a Republican. (Factcheck)

As far as what McCain has actually done for his country, would you mind providing me with a list? McCain was one of 600 + POWs. I would believe ANY of them before believing this purebred (sic). Believe McCain or Bell, your choice. My national pride is on Bell. You, vp, disappoint me. Someone who has experienced Vietnam should have a lot more sense than you are displaying. Read Bell's bio again!!!!!

Why don't you at minimum try to step outside of the Deer Hunting with Jesus mentality for a few minutes to at least try to understand the reality going on in the world?

Getting a little bored with you lack of vision, vp. (Yawn.)

393,000 new unemployment claims ... hummmmmm ... and with all the part time hires for the Christmas (which are counted btw)....

Wake up people, things are not looking good and are set to get a lot worse ... take off those Rose Colored Glasses....

Dear God, why are there so many stupid people?

vmj, A book you need to read"Deer Hunting with Jesus"!

WASHINGTON (AP) — The number of Americans seeking unemployment benefits fell 23,000 to a seasonally adjusted 393,000 last week, the Labor Department said Thursday.

Applications spiked to 451,000 three weeks ago after Sandy battered the East Coast, closing businesses in the Northeast and cutting off power to 8 million homes in 10 states.

It was the second straight drop after Superstorm Sandy had driven applications much higher earlier this month.

REPEAT Superstorm Sandy had driven applications much higher earlier this month.

vmj - The number has dropped repeat d r o p p e d! It really would help if you would read more than just the first sentence of an article. Oh, that's right! You are a Republican, aren't you?

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